Banks, Sub banks and Programs etc...

[tkarmakid]

Hi All,

I had a friend over recently for a jam session which I felt went pretty well. I have discovered a workflow method while working with someone else that has, I believe, good potential for creativity and productivity. It was fun too. Basically we would load up a vst and one guy was on the computer changing presets, parameter tweaks, etc. just to find inspiring sounds, all while the other guy is on the keyboard jamming. The whole bit is recorded into a session view midi clip. We got a bunch of recordings like this, which I am planning to crop up later.
Anyway, I saw in the point blank video with Freddie Frogs something which was kind of a eureka moment for me. In the video Freddie was Using Massive to demonstrate in Live that you could change presets for Massive in the clip view using the bank and program change section. So, if a preset is a program change and the banks are, well banks; then, if the banks in Live correspond with the banks in a vst (usually labeled "Bass", "Polysynth", "Keyboard" ect.) and the program in the clip to presets in the vst, then is it possible to record these preset changes in the clip which you are recording? This way, while cropping the clip up, the patterns which get cropped out will have that preset data stored, preferably in a clip envelope that will show over time throughout the clip where presets were changed, corresponding with the midi notes played. Freddy Frogs showed how he changed the presets in Massive in a similar way using a clip envelope, changing the bank and program section in a clip. Except in my ideal setup this would be done automatically during the recording of a jam session. I saw in the manual that it will depend on the vst too, but does anybody in here do this already, and if so, which vst/s are you using?

[yur2die4]

The trickiest part is that the basic program change functions are not by default automated in clips. Each clip gets one program change command.

The workaround is with max4live. A device can be made which sends a program change. But it can have a knob that does it. Then the knob itself can be automated.

But that is for automating.

As for Recording program change... I guess we'd have to find out if m4l can receive program change and then send it to something which would be recordable as clip automation.

[tkarmakid]

The trickiest part is that the basic program change functions are not by default automated in clips. Each clip gets one program change command.

The workaround is with max4live. A device can be made which sends a program change. But it can have a knob that does it. Then the knob itself can be automated.

But that is for automating.

As for Recording program change... I guess we'd have to find out if m4l can receive program change and then send it to something which would be recordable as clip automation.

Thanks for the reply, I see what your saying here. This would allow Ableton to control the vst preset change with a specific m4l device. That's cool too. Preferably I would like to control the Ableton clip envelope with the Vst, by changing preset, banks etc. and have it recorded into the clip live. This method wouldnt work with one edit point per clip though.

[tkarmakid]

Although it is still nice to know that you could change the presets with the envelopes among the different clips. That saves a lot of cpu by not have to load multiple tracks with the same vst ( although that may be necessary sometimes too). And it makes sense from lives point of view too because your not going to play two different presets at the same time on the same track, and if so that's more like something you would do in the vst itself with layers or whatnot. But it would also be if you could automate that so you wouldn't have to go back and try to match up a specific clip which was cropped out with whichever preset was loaded during that specific point in the jam session in which it was cropped from after that fact. I geuss notes and scribbles during a recording session could work for now. But I think it should be something for Ableton to consider. That will be my recommended thing for Ableton to implement in their next version - everyone has their thing, now I do too.

[shatakaan]

could someone please post he link to the video mentioned?

thanks:-)

[mylkoa]

There is a device on M4L.com that's called "dial to program change" that should do exactly what you want.

http://www.maxforlive.com/library/devic ... ram-change

If you map the program button, then you can record it in Live.

Also, there's another M4L tool called "PKS MIDI tool" in which you might be able to do the same thing.

http://www.maxforlive.com/library/devic ... -midi-tool

[TomViolenz]

Clyphx Macrobat has the nK Midi Rack which can send program change messages via macro movements. These Macro movements I imagine can be recorded.