Debating getting a Push...

[PFN78]

I currently have an original Launchpad, Keith McMillen QuNeo, Korg KP3, and a Traktor Kontrol Z1 and compose exclusively with Ableton Live. I am selling the latter three because I do not use them enough and/or I do not enjoy using them to compose. My current workflow involves creating beats with my mouse and keyboard and playing melodies and basslines using the note mode on the Launchpad to create very ambient and atmospheric music. I also loop a lot of audio and enjoy the idea of mangling audio live, but I am held back by the fact that I can't effectively do so with my current crop of controllers.

Now the Push is very enticing and I was intrigued when I used one over at Guitar Center, but I have doubts about whether it really works for me. I'm not much of a beat sequencer as the melodies and atmospheres matter to me more. I like that it can be it's own instrument that removes the need to constantly stare at a screen, but for audio it doesn't seem like the best option (especially for mangling stuff) and I wonder if it's the best use of my (limited) money.

Others have suggested the Maschine for it's audio-mangling abilities (which I could also see augmenting with a MIDI keyboard) or maybe the Livid Base II, but I don't want to have to spend a lot of time trying to program the damn thing, which is why I'm turned off to the QuNeo; one has to program the hell outta the thing to really make it shine while I'd rather be jamming away on it. Given my workflow, does anyone have hands-on experience with the above-mentioned controllers and can they provide first-hand experience on how they might fit into and complement my workflow? Again, working with audio more naturally, holistically, and "live" is really a bonus for me.

[EDIT] I should also add that I am trying to create more "live" music as opposed to "canned" music, i.e. creating clips and using the Launchpad to just launch them, that's it.

[eyeknow]

I could be wrong, but I don't think that mangling audio is even a thing with push. I have maschine (first gen) and yeah, it can do that.

What push gives you may not be to your liking. For someone like me who wants the record/quantize/scene control at my proverbial fingertips with velocity sensitive pads, it's a treat (well, mostly)

You can't audition sounds with push. This could be a really big factor. Also, without getting clyphex (spelling?) you can't have push remember what scale you are working in (it always defaults to C maj/A min.)

Something else that is annoying is that if you try to adjust your reverb on a bus for example, it takes the focus away from push.......so you have to use another controller (if you have more than one) to see if the levels for that reverb are right (or go back to that track which gets confusing and as said..annoying)

I might sound like I'm just not happy with push which is not true. I just am not sure that with what you described that it's going to be for you.

[nowtime]

Launchpad, midi keyboard plus a BCR2000 and you're ready to go.

[PFN78]

Launchpad, midi keyboard plus a BCR2000 and you're ready to go.

I do have the Launchpad already, except that I haven't yet figured out how to mangle audio live.

But I COULD do that by getting M4L and the Monome emulator, no?

[JoshG567]

Launchpad, midi keyboard plus a BCR2000 and you're ready to go.

BCR2k is so adaptable and yet so underrated.

[yur2die4]

Get faders. They allow you to quickly flick levels in a live setting.

One of the greatest challenges when it comes to 'mangling audio live' is creating a workable environment. I'd advice making a live set that you can manipulate using what you have and then imagining how having those replaced can improve what you have.

Also, do you have an iPad or iphone? Highly recommend TouchAble

[PFN78]

Get faders. They allow you to quickly flick levels in a live setting.

One of the greatest challenges when it comes to 'mangling audio live' is creating a workable environment. I'd advice making a live set that you can manipulate using what you have and then imagining how having those replaced can improve what you have.

Also, do you have an iPad or iphone? Highly recommend TouchAble

I considered rotaries (one of the attractive features of Push is that the encoders are automatically mapped to effects and instruments) but what I really strive for is that ability to play Live more like an instrument.

I was considering getting M4L for certain apps like the Monome/Launchpad emulator, but again it's a question of what works best with my current and projected workflow.

And I did consider TouchAble but personally it doesn't appeal to me.

[yur2die4]

Rotaries are great too. And if you have any controllers already, it isn't hard to make the mapping thing work.

But faders are an extra convenience. Push is for certain a great instrument. It is easy to list many things which it is capable of. However, in most cases you're doing each of these things one at a time. So like, you'll be contorting your synth's macros and want to quick-fade your drums at certain points. You have to jump between screens and your rotaries will have an odd 'reactive' feel to them. They react to your dialing rate. Where as faders dedicated to channel volume can let you have some consistent aspects of your set.

With those foundations at the ready, you can dig deeper on Push because you won't have to keep messing with volumes being wasted on the precious display.

Edit: have you considered combining the z1 with the 'selected track control' script?

[login]

Other option is an iPad with lemur, many templates for many tasks.

[PFN78]

Rotaries are great too. And if you have any controllers already, it isn't hard to make the mapping thing work.

But faders are an extra convenience. Push is for certain a great instrument. It is easy to list many things which it is capable of. However, in most cases you're doing each of these things one at a time. So like, you'll be contorting your synth's macros and want to quick-fade your drums at certain points. You have to jump between screens and your rotaries will have an odd 'reactive' feel to them. They react to your dialing rate. Where as faders dedicated to channel volume can let you have some consistent aspects of your set.

With those foundations at the ready, you can dig deeper on Push because you won't have to keep messing with volumes being wasted on the precious display.

Edit: have you considered combining the z1 with the 'selected track control' script?

Push is great, but again the issue is one of avoiding buying unnecessary gear or stuff that may not meet my workflow needs. Maybe I need to give Push a second look, or find another controller, etc.

But it also occurred to me that I *may* be able to upgrade to Suite and use M4L and the additional sounds and instruments to find new ways of using the equipment I already have; my Launchpad is still my default and go-to production tool despite it's limitations. The monome emulator has always intrigued me (including it's ability to simply take my existing clips and allow me to chop them instantly without much mouse work) or the various other tools available as M4L scripts.

Either way, none of these options are easy (or cheap) to decide between. Some more thought on my part may be necessary. But buying new gear still strikes me as a bit unnecessary, you know?

[EDIT] I used to play bass until I developed tendonitis, so I moved into electronic production to fill that gap. Obviously the inability to really "play" electronic music in the same way one plays a traditional instrument has always been a tough thing for me to accept.

[yur2die4]

Do you already have the LP95 script for the Launchpad????? It's a really good one.

I can do so much with just that and nothing else.

And free

[PFN78]

Do you already have the LP95 script for the Launchpad????? It's a really good one.

I can do so much with just that and nothing else.

And free

I haven't heard of it before but it looks useful. I'll have to buy a Mini since my original Launchpad isn't compatible but that's fine with me.

[yur2die4]

All launchpads are compatible. I use the original version.
Are you sure you were looking at the right thing?

One of the key functions it adds to the Launchpad is the ability to 'play' it I'm the same manner as Push with the same pad/note/drum layout. It has some fun step sequencing modes also, and the buttons along the right side have helpful functions.

http://motscousus.com/stuff/2011-07_Nov ... e_Scripts/

[PFN78]

As time passes I'm beginning to lean towards getting a Maschine along with some kind of MIDI keyboard. Push is nice, but Maschine can chop samples so much more easily and intuitively (something I've wanted to do but been unable to).

[Tarekith]

I used a Maschine Studio over the summer, and it was seriously impressive. Pretty much no computer needed after you start a project, and the included content is some of the best.

You might no even need a MIDI keyboard if you get on with the 4x4 grid on maschine. The pads are very responsive, you have a lot of dynamics control, just in a different layout.