Debating getting a Push...

[PFN78]

I used a Maschine Studio over the summer, and it was seriously impressive. Pretty much no computer needed after you start a project, and the included content is some of the best.

You might no even need a MIDI keyboard if you get on with the 4x4 grid on maschine. The pads are very responsive, you have a lot of dynamics control, just in a different layout.

That's the impression I'm getting also. The only downside is I'd prefer the Mikro, but not having those eight encoders up top (with two screens to boot) would be a deal breaker, so if I bought one I'd have to get the full sized version.

[panten]

Maschine still doesn't have Audio tracks right?

[PFN78]

Maschine still doesn't have Audio tracks right?

A quick Google search says "no", which has again swung my opinion back towards the Push.

Aren't these decisions always fun?

[panten]

When you say 'sound mangling', what exactly do you mean?

I personally find that Push aids massively with giving variance (over time) to a sound, either by using the per step Automation or recording the automation. It works so beautifully with Push which has touch sensitive knobs that only record if you're holding them.

This is a HUGE advantage for Push over Maschine if you predominantly use Live. You keep all your automation in clips right up to the point where you export to master. This is something that only really occurred to me AFTER I bought Push of which I'm really thankful that I did. Tweaking automation has become a huge part of my workflow and it's thanks to Push.

As fantastic as Maschine is, I really feel that I would struggle a lot more to integrate it into Live for my particular way of working than I have with Push.

Good luck with your choice. I debated for months between getting Maschine or Push on that 'Sitting on the Fence' thread.

[tedlogan]

I personally find that Push aids massively with giving variance (over time) to a sound, either by using the per step Automation or recording the automation. It works so beautifully with Push which has touch sensitive knobs that only record if you're holding them.

You keep all your automation in clips right up to the point where you export to master. This is something that only really occurred to me AFTER I bought Push of which I'm really thankful that I did. Tweaking automation has become a huge part of my workflow and it's thanks to Push.

It's a fantastic way to explore possibilities before committing to arrangement, and/or recording multiple automation takes of the same clip. I also never really bothered tweaking automation much before Push. Now it's a joy. Underlined bits for emphasis.

I cannot speak for Maschine as I've never used it.

[Buleriachk]

For me (I have both), the major difference is the elastic audio in Live (and the 8x8 clip matrix for Push and Launchpad) vs. the fantastic libraries for Maschine.

I wish Akai had gone with an 8x8 matrix for the APC40 - and they omitted bank switching altogether in the APC Mini and the APC Key 25. (Some lazy software engineer derived the Mini from the Key 25 script, and omitted the difference in matrices altogether. I can only hope this will be fixed.

[PFN78]

The best way to address your questions is perhaps to delve a little deeper into my workflow.

As far as audio is concerned I currently only use it sparingly, mostly by looping atmospheric nature sounds or random stuff I find. The rest of it is MIDI that uses sounds that I custom design myself using the Synth1 VST.

Push is great because I can continue doing what I do but with less mousework and more live composition. It would also allow me the opportunity to finally create beats via my controller as opposed to being stuck with using my mouse. I would also (finally!) be able to adjust my synth's settings on the fly without having to MIDI learn my controller first. The downside is the inability to do Maschine-style audio chopping, but I don't know how much I'd be doing that.

Maschine is great because it would allow me to much more readily slice and remix audio samples, something I haven't really done a lot of in Ableton because of the lack of an easy means of doing so. It also has a lot of MIDI I can play with and the ability to adjust the settings on the different plugins on the fly. The problem is that the Maschine 2 software apparently doesn't support audio tracks, I only get 16 buttons to work with, and integrating with Live wouldn't be as intuitive as with the Push.

So that's where I'm stuck. Thoughts?

[panten]

Believe me, I totally understand your dilemma. The debate I was having in the 'Sitting on the Fence' thread is almost identical yours.

I summarized the pros & Cons in my 1st post. (the bits in quotes)

'Sitting on the Fence' <-click


I wouldn't bother reading the whole thread as it contains a few shill forum members who end up trolling.

P.S. It might be worth mentioning that if you're into live sound mangling then PXT-Live with Push is fantastic for mlr style chopping your sounds in real time. Works with MIDI clips but is best on audio clips as it catches little glitches in sound and is more subtle.

[PFN78]

Believe me, I totally understand your dilemma. The debate I was having in the 'Sitting on the Fence' thread is almost identical yours.

I summarized the pros & Cons in my 1st post. (the bits in quotes)

'Sitting on the Fence' <-click


I wouldn't bother reading the whole thread as it contains a few shill forum members who end up trolling.

P.S. It might be worth mentioning that if you're into live sound mangling then PXT-Live with Push is fantastic for mlr style chopping your sounds in real time. Works with MIDI clips but is best on audio clips as it catches little glitches in sound and is more subtle.

Your concerns definitely mirror mine. I sometimes wonder if I should save the cash and just buy a simple MIDI keyboard and keep the Launchpad, but the integration isn't the same.

Because at the end of the day I wanna play live...merely launching clips bores me.

[panten]

That might be a good option for you.

I personally never felt comfortable playing the keyboard. I tend to feel my way through a track and experiment until I reach a sound/mood that I like. So I sold both my MPD32 drumpad & Axiom Pro MIDI Keyboard to get a Push; and I've never looked back. I love it. It's bridged the gap brilliantly between my hands and Live, in a way that never felt intuitive before.

It's so easy to flip between live drumming out some ideas > step sequencing > playing melodies > tweaking automation > trying out some effects > playing around launching different clips > jumping to PXT-Live for some clip/sound mangling > recording out a jam to the Arrangement View > further tweaking and session view ideas etc >> you get the picture. That all happens without leaving Push.

There are a few times where you jump back to mouse/keyboard but it's way less than when I used other MIDI controllers.

The only thing I miss and would like on Push is an elegant 'Sample Recording/Chopping Workflow' <-click

This is my Push perspective. Maschine users will give you there take on using it in the Live environment and I'm sure you'd have great fun using it if you got one. I know I would.

[beatz01]

Keeping the LP + LP95 + Launch Control XL would be an option, no ?

I really like that with the LC XL you have constant and simulanous access to sends 1+2 of the first 8 tracks AND the first 8 macros of the selected track.Great for lots of simultanous live tweaking.

[Fritz609]

Ever thnk about the launchkey?

[PFN78]

Keeping the LP + LP95 + Launch Control XL would be an option, no ?

I really like that with the LC XL you have constant and simulanous access to sends 1+2 of the first 8 tracks AND the first 8 macros of the selected track.Great for lots of simultanous live tweaking.

So the top row controls the instrument you currently have loaded on the selected track and the bottom two control the sends? And it maps everything automatically?

It's an interesting device but I still don't find myself wowed by it...

[beatz01]

So the top row controls the instrument you currently have loaded on the selected track and the bottom two control the sends? And it maps everything automatically?

The other way around - first two rows would be 8x2 sends, bottom row would be the 8 first macros on a selected device/track.

It's just one of several options, but probably my favourite one.And yes, everything automatically.

I wasn't that impressed with the LCXL at first either, but the more i read about it, the better it looks.At first i thought the missing dedicated buttons for solo/arm/mute would be a deal breaker but at least there are dedicated shift/function buttons for those, so at least much easier than the shift orgy on a APC Mini.Also i still think it's a pity they didn't make the knobs into endless encoders like on the Nocturn but i guess takeover mode is manageable.

The more i think about it, there are 2 ways to go:

1) LP + LP95/LPC2 + LCXL = The poor man's Push
2) Push + LCXL = Killer Combo.

[login]

The launchcontrol XL would be perfe4ct if it had an extra set of 8 encoders for macros. The 8 knobs of the third row doesn't cut it.