Please help me understand a basic (???) metering question!

[Auto2000]

Hi everyone,
I was making a song today and decided to put an L2 limiter on one of the tracks.

The internal Ableton meter was showing that this channel was peaking at -15.6 db, see here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/o9petsvlvtj5m ... n.PNG?dl=0

But when I put the L2 on that same channel, it showed that the track was clipping!! See here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/a58ub0kni6wu1r5/l2.PNG?dl=0

What is it that I don't understand?
I could have understood if it was a difference of 1 db or so (different metering algorithms etc), but more than 15 db!

Can somebody give me an insight on this?
Thank you very much!

[Tarekith]

Set the output to -0.3dB, with it set to 0 like it is right now, any processing the plug in does will clip.

[ImNotDedYet]

How much gain were you pushing through the limiter and what is your lookahead/attack and overall limit value set at? You could still have clipping if your attack isn't fast enough, letting the peaks through. If your gain is pushing over the 15 dbs to get to zero, you'll wind up clipping if the limiter isn't catching the peaks. And if your overall limit db value is set to something like .1 or something very close to 0 db, it's more likely given the above two variables. Also, if you have normalization configured as well, that can cause clipping in my experience, although I've never used L2.

[Auto2000]

Set the output to -0.3dB, with it set to 0 like it is right now, any processing the plug in does will clip.

Sorry but I didn't understand this.
Where is the output set to 0? On the L2? It's the ceiling, not the output.

[Auto2000]

How much gain were you pushing through the limiter and what is your lookahead/attack and overall limit value set at? You could still have clipping if your attack isn't fast enough, letting the peaks through. If your gain is pushing over the 15 dbs to get to zero, you'll wind up clipping if the limiter isn't catching the peaks. And if your overall limit db value is set to something like .1 or something very close to 0 db, it's more likely given the above two variables. Also, if you have normalization configured as well, that can cause clipping in my experience, although I've never used L2.

There are no such controls on the L2 as lookahead and attack.
If it was what you described, why would the Ableton channel meter show -15.6 db? It is clearly metering peaks, isn't it?
There is no normalization, too.

I still don't understand this at all.
And most importantly - it's not always the case - I have come across this issue only on a couple certain tracks.

[fishmonkey]

post some pics of your Live set showing the devices on that channel...

[alpertt]

Internal Ableton meter is post fader, you insert limiter pre fader.
Lowering channels volume doesn't reduce the gain into the limiter.

[fishmonkey]

ah yeah!

[Da hand]

Internal Ableton meter is post fader, you insert limiter pre fader.
Lowering channels volume doesn't reduce the gain into the limiter.

And to put that into simpler terms.... Looking at volumes, the track fader is the last volume control on a track. So anything you put on that track (like your L2) will receive the existing volume before the -17dB adjustment you made on the track volume fader. So the L2 will receive the full volume sound, make it's adjustment, output the sound and only then your -17dB volume fader kicks in.

Also, your original sound (without the L2) is clipping by the way. If you look at your track volumes in your picture without the L2, your fader is at -17dB, the sound is peaking at -15.6dB = +1.4 of clipping from the sound source before your -17dB adjustment.

[Auto2000]

Thanks a lot guys, super helpful!