Recording Push Drums in Arrangement Mode - issue / idea!

[jackson88]

I agree with jackson88, I don't think using 2 computers is a common practice to perform live. Anb what if you want to apply same effect modification to 2 tracks on 2 different computers ? What if you use program change, clyphx, PXT-Live, ... ?
A sent another message to Ableton Support, and maybe if you do the same we have more chances that they take this issue in consideration.
I will call them tomorrow to have a more comprehensive discussion with technical support team to be sure they understand the use case.

i'm not talking about you on stage using two computers....im talking about you and another human...using the same project files and same instruments, and being able to play the isntruments differently overtop of eachother.

Live isn't made the way you are thinking it shold be....they already pointed that out in their response to you. It's purposely made that way...to have the session be exclusive from the arrangement....it's not like a shortcoming that they havent figured out how to do yet...it's the way they intend the system to work...if you change that, you'r e changing the entire way that ableton works. besides why would you want to be playing the exact same instrument over top of itself....it's such an unusual thing...unless you are playing in different octaves...which would make one bass and one tenor, or one soprano and one alto.....and then they would just be considered tow diffeent tracks any way......so there would be no issue.

I just dont understand you..i play in a band and the othee bandmember have their own laptop setup with ther own favo synths and instruments.we should all be recordinh to arrangement but instead we cant because of this limitation.

Ur saying that thats just the way ableton works..yes obviously..i dont see why it should work/act different when not recording to arrangment. Whats the benifit of blocking all midinotes when recording to arrangement?I also dont see theproblem if this was fixed for poeple recording to arrangement its not like suddenly the whole programwill act differently.they would still be able to record ther session clips to arrangement exacly the same way they did before.

[NoSonic822]

but...you can record new notes to arrangement while the existing clip is playing...you just need to duplicate the track......you dont see how the "problem" that you see isn't really a problem in reality.....you want live to be able to play the clip from the session into the arrangment...whilst simultaneuously recording new notes from that same track into the arrangement.....this is a box inside a box inside a box.......it's going in circles.........you dont see that? you are asking ableton to basically transform a single track...into an entire daw!.....so they would have to create these artifical divisions within a track within a track...but why wouyld they do that when that 's already what abelton is! it's recordable tracks within a big recordable environment....

I agree with jackson88, I don't think using 2 computers is a common practice to perform live. Anb what if you want to apply same effect modification to 2 tracks on 2 different computers ? What if you use program change, clyphx, PXT-Live, ... ?
A sent another message to Ableton Support, and maybe if you do the same we have more chances that they take this issue in consideration.
I will call them tomorrow to have a more comprehensive discussion with technical support team to be sure they understand the use case.

i'm not talking about you on stage using two computers....im talking about you and another human...using the same project files and same instruments, and being able to play the isntruments differently overtop of eachother.

Live isn't made the way you are thinking it shold be....they already pointed that out in their response to you. It's purposely made that way...to have the session be exclusive from the arrangement....it's not like a shortcoming that they havent figured out how to do yet...it's the way they intend the system to work...if you change that, you'r e changing the entire way that ableton works. besides why would you want to be playing the exact same instrument over top of itself....it's such an unusual thing...unless you are playing in different octaves...which would make one bass and one tenor, or one soprano and one alto.....and then they would just be considered tow diffeent tracks any way......so there would be no issue.

I just dont understand you..i play in a band and the othee bandmember have their own laptop setup with ther own favo synths and instruments.we should all be recordinh to arrangement but instead we cant because of this limitation.

Ur saying that thats just the way ableton works..yes obviously..i dont see why it should work/act different when not recording to arrangment. Whats the benifit of blocking all midinotes when recording to arrangement?I also dont see theproblem if this was fixed for poeple recording to arrangement its not like suddenly the whole programwill act differently.they would still be able to record ther session clips to arrangement exacly the same way they did before.

[Timbeaux]

isnt it just clicking record in arrangement and pressing spacebar to record and not the record button on the push?

[elzinko]

isnt it just clicking record in arrangement and pressing spacebar to record and not the record button on the push?

No I don't think so did you see the video of the first message?

[elzinko]

but...you can record new notes to arrangement while the existing clip is playing...you just need to duplicate the track......

Inversoundzzz, again, how do you do for controlling effetcs of both tracks (or send bus) when you have a duplicated track ? I already tested such a solution on one computer... possible but REALLY complicated.

you dont see how the "problem" that you see isn't really a problem in reality.....you want live to be able to play the clip from the session into the arrangment...whilst simultaneuously recording new notes from that same track into the arrangement.....this is a box inside a box inside a box.......it's going in circles.........you dont see that? you are asking ableton to basically transform a single track...into an entire daw!.....so they would have to create these artifical divisions within a track within a track...but why wouyld they do that when that 's already what abelton is! it's recordable tracks within a big recordable environment....

Are you sure you know what you are talking about? Are you an Ableton developper?

Again, your "solution" is not a satisfing one for me, nor for jackson88 if I understand his point of view, but it's up to you or someone else to use it. I did the same for now, but the fact is that I am not satisfied.

As a conclusion, I'll quote a great citation from The Shakoks : "Why do simple when one can do complicated?"

Hope you won't take it amiss

[NoSonic822]

Whats the benifit of blocking all midinotes when recording to arrangement?

i dont think it's a "benefit" thing...it's more just a overcomplicating thing....it's just too bizarre and unnecessary to have a single track act like that...im not a computer guy, im not a programmer....i can just see the logic of it all. this is like one of those things...where, you re basically telling all the ableton programmers theyre way of doing things is stupid..or that it's not correct..or the best way to do it....i think they know what theyre doing....im sure theres other daws that act the way you want this too isnt there

but...you can record new notes to arrangement while the existing clip is playing...you just need to duplicate the track......

Inversoundzzz, again, how do you do for controlling effetcs of both tracks (or send bus) when you have a duplicated track ? I already tested such a solution on one computer... possible but REALLY complicated.

you dont see how the "problem" that you see isn't really a problem in reality.....you want live to be able to play the clip from the session into the arrangment...whilst simultaneuously recording new notes from that same track into the arrangement.....this is a box inside a box inside a box.......it's going in circles.........you dont see that? you are asking ableton to basically transform a single track...into an entire daw!.....so they would have to create these artifical divisions within a track within a track...but why wouyld they do that when that 's already what abelton is! it's recordable tracks within a big recordable environment....

Are you sure you know what you are talking about? Are you an Ableton developper?

Again, your "solution" is not a satisfing one for me, nor for jackson88 if I understand his point of view, but it's up to you or someone else to use it. I did the same for now, but the fact is that I am not satisfied.

As a conclusion, I'll quote a great citation from The Shakoks : "Why do simple when one can do complicated?"
no im not a programmer, io have no clue when it comes to computers, i'm just intelligent. but I like to keep things simple....thats my motto. do NOT overcomplicate stuff...it just creates more problems.
Hope you won't take it amiss

[elzinko]

Whats the benifit of blocking all midinotes when recording to arrangement?

i dont think it's a "benefit" thing...it's more just a overcomplicating thing....it's just too bizarre and unnecessary to have a single track act like that...im not a computer guy, im not a programmer....i can just see the logic of it all. this is like one of those things...where, you re basically telling all the ableton programmers theyre way of doing things is stupid..or that it's not correct..or the best way to do it....i think they know what theyre doing....im sure theres other daws that act the way you want this too isnt there

I don't know how to react to this...I'm sure they know what they do since I discovered the Ableton Support functionnality that allow people to contact them for this kind of problem. And believe it or not, many little/major improvment are comming from the community.

Again, to resume the situation, with PUSH, you CAN play a clip on a track + play MORE note at the same time on top of it without changing the content of the clip.
Why the hell would it be different when you are in arrangment recording more? This is a mode where you are recording what is played and what you play that's all.

i can just see the logic of it all

I recognized you Neo

PS you made a mistake when you copy/paste my citation in your last post.
You added that :

no im not a programmer, io have no clue when it comes to computers, i'm just intelligent. but I like to keep things simple....thats my motto. do NOT overcomplicate stuff...it just creates more problems.

[NoSonic822]

i see why you think it is a simple problem........theres a reason why its like that.......i've noticed that too, i just dont see it as a problem...because why would i want to record the exact same instrument into the track when the content for that track is playing in the arrangment....why do want to layer the exact same instrument with the exact same fx over itself....it....just doesn't make sense.....and even if you do, then just make a duplicate track.....if your pc cant handle that then you need a more powerful pc.....

Whats the benifit of blocking all midinotes when recording to arrangement?

i dont think it's a "benefit" thing...it's more just a overcomplicating thing....it's just too bizarre and unnecessary to have a single track act like that...im not a computer guy, im not a programmer....i can just see the logic of it all. this is like one of those things...where, you re basically telling all the ableton programmers theyre way of doing things is stupid..or that it's not correct..or the best way to do it....i think they know what theyre doing....im sure theres other daws that act the way you want this too isnt there

I don't know how to react to this...I'm sure they know what they do since I discovered the Ableton Support functionnality that allow people to contact them for this kind of problem. And believe it or not, many little/major improvment are comming from the community.

Again, to resume the situation, with PUSH, you CAN play a clip on a track + play MORE note at the same time on top of it without changing the content of the clip.
Why the hell would it be different when you are in arrangment recording more? This is a mode where you are recording what is played and what you play that's all.

i can just see the logic of it all

I recognized you Neo

PS you made a mistake when you copy/paste my citation in your last post.
You added that :

no im not a programmer, io have no clue when it comes to computers, i'm just intelligent. but I like to keep things simple....thats my motto. do NOT overcomplicate stuff...it just creates more problems.

[elzinko]

So to conclude this thread, here is the fresh answer that Ableton gave me today, after 3 attempts, and many more mails in this forum :

Hi Thomas,

Thank you for contacting us. This is Frank helping you today, I'm sorry for the inconveniences you had so far.

The problem you are experiencing is indeed a bug that we are aware of and currently working on.

However, there is a workaround to create a second MIDI Track with the Output going directly to the first MIDI track. It's important to explicitly select the first MIDI track.

Apart from this workaround, switching the Record Arm off and on restores the correct behavior as well.

I hope this will help you. Please feel free to call us if you wish to talk to us on the phone. We are situated in Berlin, Germany:

Monday – Friday 10:00 to 22:00 CET
Tel: +49 xx xxx xxx-xxx

You can also tell us a time and we will try to call you back.

Best regards,

Frank
Ableton Support

Inversoundzzz, I tried to conviced you the best I could, but there was no way to do it... hope you didn't buy a second PC for the sake of this post

happy day!

[jackson88]

im happy ableton recognized and confirmed the problem as a bug.
the workaround lets you overdub but doesn't record the overdubed notes to arrangement view . so lets hope they fix this bug in there next update.

[elzinko]

im happy ableton recognized and confirmed the problem as a bug.
the workaround lets you overdub but doesn't record the overdubed notes to arrangement view . so lets hope they fix this bug in there next update.

Yes, it has been a real fight!
And this is not finished, I will contact them about another bug with using Chain Selector on a drum rack. The drum rack does not refresh when you change the chain...but this is another post

[elzinko]

By the way, is it possible to set this post as resolved ?

[NoSonic822]

theres is no bug, it's all imaginary

So to conclude this thread, here is the fresh answer that Ableton gave me today, after 3 attempts, and many more mails in this forum :

Hi Thomas,

Thank you for contacting us. This is Frank helping you today, I'm sorry for the inconveniences you had so far.

The problem you are experiencing is indeed a bug that we are aware of and currently working on.

However, there is a workaround to create a second MIDI Track with the Output going directly to the first MIDI track. It's important to explicitly select the first MIDI track.

Apart from this workaround, switching the Record Arm off and on restores the correct behavior as well.

I hope this will help you. Please feel free to call us if you wish to talk to us on the phone. We are situated in Berlin, Germany:

Monday – Friday 10:00 to 22:00 CET
Tel: +49 xx xxx xxx-xxx

You can also tell us a time and we will try to call you back.

Best regards,

Frank
Ableton Support

Inversoundzzz, I tried to conviced you the best I could, but there was no way to do it... hope you didn't buy a second PC for the sake of this post

happy day!

[jackson88]

By the way, is it possible to set this post as resolved ?

we still need a workaround......

[elzinko]

@jackson88 : the workaround is in the answer of Ableton support isn't it?

Apart from this workaround, switching the Record Arm off and on restores the correct behavior as well

I did not test cause i am not at home, but i'll try tonight.

@Inversoundzzz, I now believe there is one bug. you