"Making your own music"

[H20nly]

yeah sure, and James Blake isn't a real musician if he plays a sampling synthesizer. Funny thing is if he plays an acoustic piano he is. Unless, it has MIDI. If so. he's a cheat!
Good luck with that!

the fact that he can play an acoustic piano does lend itself to the "real musician" designation no matter who is defining the term.

i never said playing a MIDI keyboard isn't music, nor did i say sampling isn't music... you're attempting to put words in my mouth. i don't have an issue with making music with any tools you want; however i won't lower a guitar player or a trumpet player's skill level and dedication to the lowest common denominator so that my sample triggering can be viewed in a more favorable light.

i guess that's the difference between you and i...

that... and you're implying i'm acting like i'm 12 while you expect us to believe you're esoteric.

[TomViolenz]

that's very uninteresting to know as that was obvious for all. Mentioning why might have been interesting. Or not.

ok... how about this...

unlike you... i don't need to justify my samples and sampling by pretending that sampling takes anywhere near the skill it takes to play a piano, violin, guitar or even a harmonica ffs.

when i sample it goes like this... cut -> paste -> move on to the next part of the song.

i don't pontificate about it while typing on an Apple keyboard with one hand and simultaneously patting myself on the back with the other as i pretentiously berate and attempt to devalue other posters valid opinions about the effort it takes to play music vs. triggering recordings in new and varied ways.

is that interesting enough for you?

Sorry, but you are doing exactly that just for the other side.

Elucidate for us, when does a device that can be triggered to produce sounds become an instrument according to you?!

Wine glases tapped with spoons, doors rythmicaly being knocked on, a big saw being bend are they "instruments"? I've certainly seen people play them before.
And if so why is Sampler being played with a keyboard not?

And if not, what's so damn special about learning three chords to strum a guitare that it makes the guitare more an instrument than all of the above?!

[Stromkraft]

Everything is 'potentially' an instrument, including tape players, iPods, and doors. This includes entirely the skilled and the unskilled players of these instruments, but also excludes them. It really depends on how they interact with it .

yes, I agree. It's "how you do it" and what you express that makes it a piece of music (meaningful for someone) and that performance is what determines if you're an artist, a musician or not.
What criteria you require is open for debate and I can see the value of skills as Bodha refers to, but I feel those viewpoints are just one type of musician with a certain set of skills (dexterity et al) talking down other types of musicians with or without those same skill sets and other ones, because they chose other types of instruments and other ways of expression.

[TomViolenz]

yeah sure, and James Blake isn't a real musician if he plays a sampling synthesizer. Funny thing is if he plays an acoustic piano he is. Unless, it has MIDI. If so. he's a cheat!
Good luck with that!

the fact that he can play an acoustic piano does lend itself to the "real musician" designation no matter who is defining the term.

i never said playing a MIDI keyboard isn't music, nor did i say sampling isn't music... you're attempting to put words in my mouth. i don't have an issue with making music with any tools you want; however i won't lower a guitar player or a trumpet player's skill level and dedication to the lowest common denominator so that my sample triggering can be viewed in a more favorable light.

laughable
Must be a miraculous skill set to play Wish you were here or smoke on the water on the guitare that any 16 year old dude seems to be capable of it

[Stromkraft]

yeah sure, and James Blake isn't a real musician if he plays a sampling synthesizer. Funny thing is if he plays an acoustic piano he is. Unless, it has MIDI. If so. he's a cheat!
Good luck with that!

the fact that he can play an acoustic piano does lend itself to the "real musician" designation no matter who is defining the term.

i never said playing a MIDI keyboard isn't music, nor did i say sampling isn't music... you're attempting to put words in my mouth. i don't have an issue with making music with any tools you want; however i won't lower a guitar player or a trumpet player's skill level and dedication to the lowest common denominator so that my sample triggering can be viewed in a more favorable light.

I have no expectations on you. The discussion took this turn because you were being silly and lazy. You clearly indicated you believe that "sampling" could only mean to record the material of another artist and play that back. That's perhaps understandable as the OP started out there. But you left out everything I wrote about the value of how you use that sample and what you do with it. Also where you replied to me we were discussing Samplers and if they are musical instruments or not. So why that narrow focus of yours?

Even if I personally as a music producer isn't very interested in sampling other artists I've seen many many electronic artists that have done that beautifully and with artistic merit. You assuming that I am sampling in this way is just ridiculous. Stop behaving like an imbecile in these forums. You can disagree with your wit and I will listen to you and take you seriously.

The choice is yours.

[Stromkraft]

You just don't sample a slice or a section of someone else's music, you rework it, transform it and make it more or less your own. Even so and especially if you can't do this well enough you pay the copyright owner for the permission to use the sample.

I'd like to widen this to chord sequences, melodies, rhythms or grooves and other musical aspects. Most music is variations on old ideas, yet many are experienced original or "new". It's very hard though to do something truly original.

It's usually not claimed that reusing chords, chord sequences, melodies and rhythms is stealing or cheating (with composing in this case), unless you're too close to some existing material, just because the composer do that rework and transformation and pairs it, evolves it with his/her own ideas (hopefully at least) in order to produce something that can be regarded as having original value (or being close enough).

To me this is not a very different problem from how you can use samples of other artists. I chose not to do this (sampling from other artists) because I feel it's been overdone and also because I'm more interested in exploring my own musical ideas. As I make electronic music that people might want to dance to I am typically reusing grooves that have been around for a very long time, even as I add my own touch to them. That is so even if I'm recording musicians playing on "real instruments".
I think it's safe to say that this is true for a vast majority of modern music. No matter what style of music you're in you are relating your work to a tradition. That's my perspective.

[Fritz609]

The best part about the link was the comments. I like how everyone in the comments talks like theyre sitting in front of a fireplace, sipping cognac, smoking cigars, wearing red velvet robes , and tom ford slippers. Lol.

[eyeknow]

The best part about the link was the comments. I like how everyone in the comments talks like theyre sitting in front of a fireplace, sipping cognac, smoking cigars, wearing red velvet robes , and tom ford slippers. Lol.

I thought it sounded more like gangsters from "west side story"

[Stromkraft]

The best part about the link was the comments. I like how everyone in the comments talks like theyre sitting in front of a fireplace, sipping cognac, smoking cigars, wearing red velvet robes , and tom ford slippers. Lol.

Deleted my unfair response, see later post to Fritz609.

[Stromkraft]

when i sample it goes like this... cut -> paste -> move on to the next part of the song.

I'm sorry I missed this last night. It's clear from your description that your derogative words and your contempt are directed at your own personal practice of sampling other artists material (if that is from a record release or sampling library is perhaps irrelevant).

As I've already said you falsely assume that I work like you do (because I defend your use). I don't. My music may be electronic but it's not loop based. Mind you, I don't think it's wrong using samples the way you clearly do by your own admission and I have no contempt at your process. We're both music producers, that's all. As is common among Live users I would think.

Neither do I look down at Step Sequencing or Arpeggiators (I haven't used the latter though). When I see electronic live acts I prefer that those instruments are played "by hand", but in the end to me it's what is expressed that counts.

Even if I dabble at playing some "real" instruments I don't call myself a musician and if I need that kind of skill set in a track I collaborate with a "real musician". I have great admiration for all musicians usually and certainly for those I collaborate with.

[siliconarc]

The best part about the link was the comments. I like how everyone in the comments talks like theyre sitting in front of a fireplace, sipping cognac, smoking cigars, wearing red velvet robes , and tom ford slippers. Lol.

Thanks for your review, contributing nothing of real value at all.

i believe he was talking about the TED video posted on page 1, you know... to lighten the mood in here with a bit of humour...?? no. no, of course not. you're a craic vacuum.

[sporkles]

yup. makes sense... i was in prison on marijuana trafficking charges when i first heard Bitter Sweet Symphony... so maybe the lyrics stuck with me in a more positive way than your take at the time.

That's a pretty good anecdote; if I reuse it ... would you sue me, or would you consider it fair use?

[TomViolenz]

^hostile much?!

[Stromkraft]

Thanks for your review, contributing nothing of real value at all.

i believe he was talking about the TED video posted on page 1, you know... to lighten the mood in here with a bit of humour...?? no. no, of course not. you're a craic vacuum.

Hahaha, OK, good call! I missed that video. Was it on topic?

I suggest you try and add something on the subject of making your own music too. Don't you have an opinion or thought about this you want to share?

[Stromkraft]

The best part about the link was the comments. I like how everyone in the comments talks like theyre sitting in front of a fireplace, sipping cognac, smoking cigars, wearing red velvet robes , and tom ford slippers. Lol.

I feel I want to apologize for taking your remark about the comments as being a review of the discussion here and not about the link. Just saying "the link" was a bit general and out of context to me, so that's why. Context is everything. Obviously Page 1 is still current context for new posters, so I should have taken that into consideration.

Deleted my unfair response.