Musical intentions versus musical outcomes

[TomViolenz]

I personally trust my subconscious mind more than my conscious one when it comes to emotion and art.

That doesn't mean that every thing that comes out of this process is declared art by me and then I call it a day. I'm a very critical person of music and even more so regarding my own. I will listen very carefully to the result and try to formulate what it is I like and what it is that bothers me.
The next step in this iterative process is then to work into the creation process tools that make the former easier to achieve and let me avoid the later. I find it important that I don't only avoid making the mistakes or force myself making more of what I liked, but that they become part of my instruments/tools/processes, so that for the next step in the creation it can again be my subconscious mind doing it.

This is repeated many many times until I stand in awe before the result and think: I did this?!
And that sentiment comes about equally because I'm finally satisfied with my music and because I never actually intended to make that music.

[Tarekith]

Just echoing what other's have said, I think this is something most people deal with. Pretty much every single one of my songs ends up differently than I thought it would, assuming I had any sort of plan at all. I CAN stick with a plan and end up where I was trying to if I force myself, but honestly I find it's never as fun and the results are usually not as good either.

These days I'm happy to try new things and just see where the song takes me.

[re:dream]

One thing I think that can be done is aiming instead for a looser goal, like a mood or a tone or a atmosphere, or whatever you want to call it. The next step would be finding a set of tools which are conducive to that mood/tone/atmosphere. Maybe that would be using a certain handful of effects, or a certain handful of instruments, and then working within that parameter.

It's fascinating, all the possibilities!

Yes this is sort of the terrain I have to concentrate on.

So I am back in that 'how do you make this sound' territory that n00bs often start with, in this forum

[H20nly]

^ it's often not what you ask, but how you ask.

[uthemus]

Great post! IMO, the sounds traveling within the cerebral are on a completely different plane than that of what is heard in the real world, and as such can never truly be replicated. But with practice and experimentation (letting your fingers move, as you put), I think the gap can be greatly diminished. With that said, some of the most important peices of art have spawned through unintentional and unbiased spontaneity. Don't forget that...

[jbw]

One thing I think that can be done is aiming instead for a looser goal, like a mood or a tone or a atmosphere, or whatever you want to call it. The next step would be finding a set of tools which are conducive to that mood/tone/atmosphere. Maybe that would be using a certain handful of effects, or a certain handful of instruments, and then working within that parameter.

It's fascinating, all the possibilities!

Yes this is sort of the terrain I have to concentrate on.

So I am back in that 'how do you make this sound' territory that n00bs often start with, in this forum

The looser your target is, the easier it will be to hit. Aiming for something more specific has a greater potential to lead to "failure". That can be applied to not only composition, but also instrument creation.

[Angstrom]

[Tarekith]

Perfect time for my favorite quote:

"Art reaches its greatest peak when devoid of self-consciousness. Freedom discovers man the moment he loses concern over what impression he is making or about to make."
-Bruce Lee

[re:dream]

Yes, but that was Bruce Lee. In other words, someone whose skill could serve his art.

Musically, I am no Bruce Lee. Mr Bean would be more appropriate

[TomViolenz]

Well it's equally true for Rowan Atkinson

[jbw]

Yes, but that was Bruce Lee. In other words, someone whose skill could serve his art...

The process of experimentation, discovery, and perhaps even education if you are so inclined, will lead to the acquisition of skill and experience. Skill and experience will in turn better help you achieve your intention.

As I noted above, I am well trained in drawing, but tend to prefer more experimental approaches in drawing. Reason being is that quite simply it gets boring knowing what you are going to do, and it starts to feel more like work than a creative endeavor. The process of discovery on the other hand keeps things fresh and interesting.

Bottom line is I don't think you need to feel bad about not reaching a desired outcome, nor should you necessarily abandon the idea of the acquisition of skill and experience.

Perfect time for my favorite quote:

"Art reaches its greatest peak when devoid of self-consciousness. Freedom discovers man the moment he loses concern over what impression he is making or about to make."
-Bruce Lee

My favorite quote:

"America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed." -Eleanor Roosevelt, 1936 (from the opening of the movie "Talladega Nights" )

[Fritz609]

This is one of the best threads ive ever read. I thought i had a problem because i never make the music i intially was inspired to make. I either find another sound that takes me down another path or i end up making a sound that takes me down another path (maybe because i know nothing about sound design.lol.). I thought it was because i come from a sample based mpc workflow and am new to actually creating "original" music. Most of the time i go in knowing i wanna make something and have nothing on my brain. I would just kinda go wherever ableton takes me.

[Tarekith]

That's the beauty of the tools we have today

[Stromkraft]

…But increasingly I am aware that the music that is coming is not the music that I want to make. The music I hear in my head sometimes, the music that I created the re:dream musical persona for; the music that I want to make is... fairly hypnotic and driving. The music that I actually make is... surprisingly lyrical and emotional. And it is nice enough, but it is not where I want to be going.

What is really strange is that I don't really understand the reason for the disjuncture. I start with one set of musical intentions and I end up elsewhere. I am not sure whether it is lack of technical expertise... or just unfamiliarity with the sound palettes that I need to be using.... or a lack of understanding of how the musical effects I strive for are created.

My set of methods for tackling this very problem is:

• "Sounding" the ideas when I get them and recording these (Inspired by Mel Brooks actually), no matter how foolish they may sound to someone else.
• Playing trough the ideas so I understand the timing and pitch correctly, recording as that becomes clearer
• When I got them down, jamming with these to make them more expressive
• Make many hard choices and get rid of superfluous ideas on the way and never look back. Just keep moving.
• Working on developing different sound palettes, that I can make "my own" so I can start to have ideas with sounds I know how to recreate right away. This is taking me a long time, but I know no other way to get to my sounds and I am getting there, just very slowly. This means to focus on only some tools that I happen to like.
• Collaborate with others
• Keeping a list of where I want to go with a track during sessions
• Finish tracks also as I'm not satisfied, when I've emptied my task list. This is very hard for me to do and I have to force myself for this stage.

The last two may not appear like they address getting to the music in my head, but they are.

So in short, Make music! That's what you're doing already and that's great. Just keep at it! Great post also.

[Stromkraft]

I personally trust my subconscious mind more than my conscious one when it comes to emotion and art.

That doesn't mean that every thing that comes out of this process is declared art by me and then I call it a day. I'm a very critical person of music and even more so regarding my own. I will listen very carefully to the result and try to formulate what it is I like and what it is that bothers me.
The next step in this iterative process is then to work into the creation process tools that make the former easier to achieve and let me avoid the later. I find it important that I don't only avoid making the mistakes or force myself making more of what I liked, but that they become part of my instruments/tools/processes, so that for the next step in the creation it can again be my subconscious mind doing it.

This is repeated many many times until I stand in awe before the result and think: I did this?!
And that sentiment comes about equally because I'm finally satisfied with my music and because I never actually intended to make that music.

Interesting. Thanks Tom.