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[ohigetbywithalittlehelpfrommyfriends]

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[swishniak]

maybe this is a bit beside the point of where this discussion has gone, but respect for little taylor swift.. once again being a stand-up pop star (writing her own songs / sticking with a cool small label / making her own decisions).. i dont think she gets enough respect for being more than a teenie bopper.

SWISHNIAK, HOL UP , HOL UP, IMA LET YOU FINISH,BUT, BEYONCE HAD THE BEST ALBUM.............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7avEgS9Qedo

[ohigetbywithalittlehelpfrommyfriends]

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[BaronVonAbelDong]

No pleasing some I guess.

The stats you refer to in the image are completely skewed, that was my point. All other kinds of income streams kick in to support someone that is able to generate 4 million listens with music that people want to play and hear.

It's getting there which most will find hard, and that part doesn't change, wether it's Spotify or iTunes or vinyl...

If you are at a position where you are getting 4 million plays on Spotify, you won't really be too worried about how much it's bringing in, it will be icing on the cake that you are already being served.

The stats are disingenuous and are taking the focus away from the fact having 4 million streams means you 'should' already be in a position that just from publishing, performance, mechanicals (if any) and other royalties you would be on enough to pay the bills and have some to spare.

Too many spoilt 'musicians' holding on to the past at the moment no? Maybe my take on it is backwards or there's something I'm missing. I'm completely open to changing opinions, as what benefits any of us can be shared. Maybe I just haven't found a piece of the puzzle that you or someone else has and will share?

Again, I would love to hear of a solution for moving forward, with the technologies we have, that ensures fair payment (whatever that is) and is still 'fair' for the 'consumer'. Do we have anything better than DIY or iTunes plus?

In the meantime I'm off to press up some more vinyl while I still can.

That's a weird way to look at it. Sure if you manage to pull in 4 million streams, the 1100 USD you get probably are just some sort of icing on your cake.

The point of that chart was to show how that compares to other means to sell your music.
Are you seriously arguing that the person who would be able to sell 150 CDs a month under the old system is in any way capable of generating 4million streams?
That's ridiculous!


So 150 people bought a CD with let's say 10 tracks.
To generate the same revenue these 150 people would need to listen to each track on Spotify 3000 times a month or 100 times a day. Does that seem like a likely scenario to you?!
Most people listen to their favorite album at most once a day. So in order for Spotify to be worth it to the artist, Spotify would have to get this indie artist 100 times more fans. Or let's be generous and say that the 150 people would keep generating on Spotify for a while, while the CD buy was a one time thing. Let's say they keep up this high rotation listening for 10 months (sure...). That's still 10 times more fans the artist would need to get from Spotify just to stay revenue neutral.
Yeah, right...

Disclaimer: I rounded 4 million streams up to 4.5 million to make the math easier.

When you say weird, do you mean different to yours or something that you find peculiar?

I'm not arguing anything with you I hope. I would like to think we are sharing thoughts in order to reach some beneficial options on how to earn in this day and age.

Which is why I keep asking for any suggestion, any solution, or idea no matter how trivial, because just maybe someone will open up a door that can bring in a few coins. You gave iTunes. That's not gonna grow for the future. They are down again this quarter. We may not like it, but streaming has kicked everything to the curb and will keep growing.

You aren't giving them and keep referring to a shock value image of how many streams it takes to earn minimum wage. It's not relevant and you have pointed out some reasons why yourself.

No one should be trying to earn just from Spotify. It's additional income. It's not exclusive. You can still sell your 150 cd's AND also get revenue from streaming. I know a DnB label that are getting several thousand pounds from streaming each royalty cheque and it's now their biggest source of income. I really don't think sharing these meaningless stats that are twisted to demeaning Spotify or any other streaming helps move us forward with solutions.

I used to sell potatoes. It took 150 potatoes to fill a box. Now I am forced to sell raisins. It takes 1000 raisins to fill the same box. What do I do? I know, I'll tell everyone that unless they want potatoes again I am boycotting selling food. That way if enough of us convince people they still want potatoes we can pretend they never discovered raisins and all will be well. That would be strange no? People don't want potatoes anymore. They want raisins. Nothing can change that at the moment so it's up to us to find a way to make raisins profitable... which is what I am asking you... any ideas?

Here's one I used for a while. I set up a membership and sold all of my catalogue as WAV, for just $14.99 for the lot, forever, plus any new stuff I made. It worked. I got bored and shut the site down, but it worked. Would it now? No idea. Probably for digital dj's but who else cares about owning files anymore.
Pointing out that it's better to sell CD's for the margins than be on Spotify is something that doesn't need to be stated. It's obvious, but it's also fading into history and streaming is growing. It may stop dead for some reason, no one knows.

I'm not someone making music that thinks they have a right to be supported financially while doing so, but I am curious about any ideas. If you don't have any then that's fine. But moaning about what is happening and finding people's views disrespectful doesn't change the lay of the land.

We used to be able to earn a few thousand from every vinyl release. Not no more. Should we force vinyl onto people and boycott everything else? We could, but that would be a bit silly, unless we were doing it out of love for the vinyl and respect for the craft. That I DO understand.

It seems to me that licensing - films/games and publishing/ppl etc are still where some pockets of income can be found but even that is getting beat down.

Anyway, I've said my bit. I have a hunch on how to make streaming viable, but cannot try it out until next year. We'll see.

Anyone that is making it work out, would be great to chat. Have a good one.

[swishniak]

i would also add that selling records and earning good money from record sales and radio play has really only been a hot minute in the whole history of music.

before records there was a huge sheet music industry .. player pianos / piano rolls. sheet music still sells, but not on the scale it once did.

live performance has always been the most viable platform for music. only during the record industry boom of the past 40 years did the worth of live performance devalue a bit (because of records / djs / playback/ etc.). but i think its coming back - at least if we take the new trillion dollar live concert industry as an example of its profitability.

[ohigetbywithalittlehelpfrommyfriends]

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[swishniak]

yeah - and like, this just happened

NOV 5 - 2014 SoundCloud Partners with Warner
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2014/11/s ... rner-mean/

whatever that means...

[BaronVonAbelDong]

^Yup, they know what's important. Data is the name of the game.

They can see who listens to what, when and from where. Can't go into a meeting with your demo and tell them how cool it is and cross your fingers. The majors are after the exact stats to know if people are really listening to your tunes, not just how many likes you have, but how many genuine plays. They'll be calling you up if you have something they want to push further.


Sign me up for some spoons though!

The subscription model is definitely one to be explored. 1000 people x $20 a year for whatever you release. Is that a trade off? Selling yourself short? Could you keep up with enough quality music and interest? No idea, but it doesn't sound too hard to reach 1000 if you can add value and a reason to stick around.

The explosion in tutorial websites is doing well on it. Creating sound packs and plugin presets also... but I would think it less suited to artists making music. 'Art' maybe...

Anyone out there trying it and feel like sharing results?

ohigetbywithalittlehelpfrommyfriends > sorry if this is a complete detour on your thread mate. I suddenly realised it might be. No offence meant and happy to start another one, if it's even worth it.

[ohigetbywithalittlehelpfrommyfriends]

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[H20nly]

And regarding discovering the music above only through Spotify: Seriously?! You needed Spotify to discover the bolded acts? I didn't take you for a teen just developing a taste. Where have you hidden in the decades before this one?!

no. i didn't necessarily need Spotify to discover them. what i wrote was

Here are just a few of the artists that i've purchased after being exposed to them from streaming (either for the first time or the first time in a long time)

what i meant was; i could have forgotten about them. or maybe i didn't have the album a track that was streamed came from. either way, the chances of me picking that album in a record store were slim to none.

it's kind of ironic though... you say that i must be a teen to have needed Spotify to discover these artists... yet, regardless of my age, if i discovered them via streaming and made the purchase then the artist got paid for the streaming AND because i bought the album. this in and of itself makes the argument for how the service helped the artist. twice. with one play.

[BaronVonAbelDong]

first thing...soundcloud and warner....let me caution all of you soundcloud users, the next time you sign in and they want you to click on an updated 'term of agreement'...you better read it word for word. because if you have songs uploaded already, you might click on an agreement that says they own a part of your song. be careful.

Ha... that would be slick... Facebook do it with your data and pictures so it's not completely unreasonable to wonder. Funny.

[H20nly]

^ it's true. and the end user license agreement that says that the end user license agreement can change whenever the fuck they want to change it is a far cry from reassuring.

maybe this is a bit beside the point of where this discussion has gone, but respect for little taylor swift.. once again being a stand-up pop star (writing her own songs / sticking with a cool small label / making her own decisions).. i dont think she gets enough respect for being more than a teenie bopper.

SWISHNIAK, HOL UP , HOL UP, IMA LET YOU FINISH,BUT, BEYONCE HAD THE BEST ALBUM.............

this was just funny.
well played sir.

[TomViolenz]

Yeah shure, spying on my fans and selling them out to corporations is exactly what I wanna do

Sorry, but I made my point, I want no part of that future, every aspect of it disgusts me.

I have nothing more to add...

[ohigetbywithalittlehelpfrommyfriends]

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[BaronVonAbelDong]

Yeah shure, spying on my fans and selling them out to corporations is exactly what I wanna do

Not sure if you genuinely misread or misinterpret things or choose to be contrary?

If you are referring to what I wrote, it was in response to what WARNER want. Not what I want or suggesting that you want it either.

swishniak posted the deal info and then "whatever that means..." - it was specifically in response to what that means. Maybe.

You do make your point and I agree with you.

I am simply interested to know what else, other than using CD baby you would do to help ensure you can survive solely from music sales and not even include merchandise? You want no part in the way it's shaping up out there, so why not discuss what you DO want a part in. It could be inspiring to hear. I won't keep pestering you to share it though. All the best with whatever you are up to.