Dwum Rack Questions!!

[uthemus]

Hey all--Just wondering, what is the difference between applying effects to a drum rack via a return track vs a global effect (with the exception of being able to control individual send levels by adding an effect to a return track)? Hope that makes sense...

Also, I was hoping to have more control over each individual sample's midi. I created one clip under the drum rack column on the first row which contains all of the midi notes for all the samples, and I figured that when I expanded the drum rack, there would be clips under each individual sample on the first row for that sample alone, so that I could control the midi individually if I needed. Is that not possible with a drum rack? Hope that makes sense too...

For fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uBOtQOO70Y

[Da hand]

Hello, not sure what you mean when you say "global" effect. Do you mean the difference between using effects on a return track vs using effects on the track itself as an insert?

Usually return track effects are used when you want the same effect to be used by more than one track at the same time to various degrees - for example reverb. A reverb on a return will let you set up "a space" that is in common to all your sounds. Then you decide with the send volume how close (less reverb) or how far (more reverb) you want your sounds to appear to be from the listener in that space. An effect on a return track keeps things tidy in that sense as you only use one effect to cover that one space and any changes you make only need to be made in that one place.


Btw, the drum rack can have it's own send/return section. So you can send to the return effects from individual chains on the drum rack.

[Fanu]

Hey all--Just wondering, what is the difference between applying effects to a drum rack via a return track vs a global effect (with the exception of being able to control individual send levels by adding an effect to a return track)? Hope that makes sense...

Also, I was hoping to have more control over each individual sample's midi. I created one clip under the drum rack column on the first row which contains all of the midi notes for all the samples, and I figured that when I expanded the drum rack, there would be clips under each individual sample on the first row for that sample alone, so that I could control the midi individually if I needed. Is that not possible with a drum rack? Hope that makes sense too...

For fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uBOtQOO70Y

As for the individual midi thing…
If you want, you can achieve that by dragging a pad that you want to separate into its own channel out of the drum rack onto its own channel and get its own midi etc there.

[Stromkraft]

Hey all--Just wondering, what is the difference between applying effects to a drum rack via a return track vs a global effect (with the exception of being able to control individual send levels by adding an effect to a return track)? Hope that makes sense...

Also, I was hoping to have more control over each individual sample's midi. I created one clip under the drum rack column on the first row which contains all of the midi notes for all the samples, and I figured that when I expanded the drum rack, there would be clips under each individual sample on the first row for that sample alone, so that I could control the midi individually if I needed. Is that not possible with a drum rack? Hope that makes sense too...

For fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uBOtQOO70Y

The difference is that the drum rack is grouped and has its own submixer with its own sends and returns, which is better than having to put them on individual chains or on the group master. The good thing with this is if you need to freeze the drum rack, audio effects within the drum rack freeze too. If you have heavy processing on your drums that uses a lot of CPU, that can be very helpful.

You can still send individual chains within the rack or the whole group to the return tracks in your main track mixer.

You can of course affect each drum voice (doesn't have to be sample) individually. They're on the their own row. What makes you think you can't?

[uthemus]

Hello, not sure what you mean when you say "global" effect. Do you mean the difference between using effects on a return track vs using effects on the track itself as an insert?

Hey Da hand--What I mean by Global Effect is applying an effect to the overall drum rack. Say for instance I select the first sample in my drum rack. I can apply effects to only this sample by dragging audio effects to the device chain; however, I noticed at the end of the chain is a separation tab, and if I drag an effect to the outside of this tab, the effect is applied to the entire drum rack. I assumed this is what is referred to as a Global Effect. Is it not? So I'm trying to figure out what the difference is between applying an effect this way versus adding an effect to a return track. The only difference I noticed was that we can control each sample's send levels by adding to a return track.

As for the individual midi thing…
If you want, you can achieve that by dragging a pad that you want to separate into its own channel out of the drum rack onto its own channel and get its own midi etc there.

Thanks, Fanu. I had known about extracting samples. I just figured I could manipulate the midi for each sample individually without having to do this. I thought the point of a drum rack was to keep everything IN the drum rack.

You can of course affect each drum voice (doesn't have to be sample) individually. They're on the their own row. What makes you think you can't?

Hey Stromkraft--Ok, let's just use a simple example. Let's say I want to automate or control the pitch for just the snare. I can't seem to do this because the snare doesn't have its own clip; it's grouped together with the midi notes of all the other samples under the drum rack column. I figured once I created a midi clip under the drum rack and expanded, each sample would the have it's own clip under its respective column so that I could control midi for each individual sample. Make sense?

[Stromkraft]

You can of course affect each drum voice (doesn't have to be sample) individually. They're on the their own row. What makes you think you can't?

Hey Stromkraft--Ok, let's just use a simple example. Let's say I want to automate or control the pitch for just the snare. I can't seem to do this because the snare doesn't have its own clip; it's grouped together with the midi notes of all the other samples under the drum rack column. I figured once I created a midi clip under the drum rack and expanded, each sample would the have it's own clip under its respective column so that I could control midi for each individual sample. Make sense?

Each drum sample is in one instance of Simpler or Sampler. You can use any other voice in the drum rack also, for instance a drum plug-in (a bit more involved to set up if you want separate outs with ext.), a synth, another Sampler like Kontakt or whatever. I prefer Sampler myself.
Anyway, in each instrument, Simpler I suppose in your case (?), you can select a control like the pitch or whatever and connect that to a MIDI control or a Live Macro (which itself can be controlled via MIDI). You can also affect several targets from one controller knob. After you've set this up you can record automation for that function.

I recommend you to read the manual. It's well spent time with that and makes it easier to know what to ask for specifically in forums and elsewhere.

[uthemus]

Oh, I see. You know, I was trying to automate and control the pitch (and other midi) through the Clip Envelope Editor, but I guess this only applies to the entire drum rack. It would be cool if under each column in clip view were the midi clips for each sample as they are drawn out in the drum rack clip.

[Stromkraft]

Oh, I see. You know, I was trying to automate and control the pitch (and other midi) through the Clip Envelope Editor, but I guess this only applies to the entire drum rack. It would be cool if under each column in clip view were the midi clips for each sample as they are drawn out in the drum rack clip.

You know, why don't you set up a control and see that it's magically available when you want it?

Check out envelopes and unlink the envelope length from the loop in the clip you're working in. You can do the same in arrangement. In session you can have another envelope length, also uneven, than the clip itself.

[uthemus]

LOL maybe I will!

[Stromkraft]

LOL maybe I will!

Actually for built in instruments there's no need to map anything. Just record the knob movement directly in the instrument. I record it from Push that is already mapped to the focused device. Sometimes I prefer macros, which is what I use for third party plugins in racks. Unless it's just MIDI.

[uthemus]

Ok, I will try this when I get home. Thanks man!

[uthemus]

Ok sorry dudes. Let me get this straight. I want to pitch automate my snare. My snare is in my drum rack. So I created a clip, opened the envelope box, selected MIDI Ctrl, then Pitch Bend. Problem is that automating the pitch bend applies to all the samples in my drum rack. I just want to pitch automate the snare. So, it's just not possible to do it this way?

If not, fine. The snare sample is within Simpler. So how can I automate the pitch? Thanks.

Check out envelopes and unlink the envelope length from the loop in the clip you're working in. You can do the same in arrangement. In session you can have another envelope length, also uneven, than the clip itself.

I didn't quite understand this, but I did navigate to the envelope box and unlinked the envelope. Didn't really understand what this did. I just noticed that all the midi notes in the drum rack disappeared and I was left with a blank clip view.

[Steve Glen]

I'd experimemt with

Convert all the simple instruments to sampler instruments. Eaxh sampler instrument can be configured to how many semitones the pitch envelope/control adjusts under the midi (last) tab. Set all the other instruments to 0. Then your global pitch bend envelope only effects your snare.

[uthemus]

i think thr pitch envelope controls how much and when the transposition takes place.

Boom! Can't believe it was that easy. I feel like a tool. In the envelope box, I had to choose the snare, then pitch envelope amount. I remember Stromkraft mentioned the knob was enbedded in the instrument. I just didn't know which one. Thanks!!

[Stromkraft]

I'd experimemt with

Convert all the simple instruments to sampler instruments. Eaxh sampler instrument can be configured to how many semitones the pitch envelope/control adjusts under the midi (last) tab. Set all the other instruments to 0. Then your global pitch bend envelope only effects your snare.

The Simpler samples are only inside one instance. However, Pitch bend is controller data and is sent to all of them as they're in the same channel and they all respond to pitch bend. But controlling the pitch parameter in one instance of Simpler is not best done with pitch bend but better with direct parameter control manipulation. No need to convert to Sampler just for that reason.

I'm in the midst of building 128s of all my samples, so very into Sampler myself.