Mods, please do something

Discuss anything related to audio or music production.
stringtapper
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Re: Mods, please do something

Post by stringtapper » Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:27 am

But Angstrom's well-founded point is moot anyway because no one really gives a shit about what "Tom" from Germany thinks about American politics or any other current event in the first place.

And that's the funniest part really. He's not even worried about a real danger like having his licenses or credit card numbers stolen but rather about some impending fascist witch hunt he perceives is on the horizon and for which he would be one of their prime targets.

:lol:

Give me a fucking break.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

:|
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re:dream
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Re: Mods, please do something

Post by re:dream » Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:12 am

Well, string, you did not grow up in East Germany.

Methinks that if you had experienced real authoritarian government, and seen its insidious power to corrupt the day to day actions of ordinary people, you might be paranoid about such things in the future too

stringtapper
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Re: Mods, please do something

Post by stringtapper » Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:55 am

A fair point.

:x
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derzai
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Re: Mods, please do something

Post by derzai » Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:00 am

Angstrom wrote:No. what I am saying is you are not being careful. If you think a Gmail account and a public proxy is any kind of protection at all then you are play acting at being careful. If someone is using a gmail account that is not protection against data mining, it is not "being careful". If you want to be careful then be careful, but do it properly. Don't tell me "I am careful, so I don't want X,Y, and Z". You are not careful, you are pretending. So you are worse than unprotected.

There is literally no "safety" difference between signing up with your Ableton registered mail account and a Gmail account as far as data protection goes.

THAT is my point.

If you want to be careful, and intend to be careful, then perhaps actually be careful. Perhaps learn about the systems you are interacting with. If you really feel so threatened by having your data online that you determine that your only course of action is to construct aliases, etc. Then really ... G mail accounts? My god. public forums? the open internet? Free proxy sites? All of those things are like walking around in a warzone while wearing a Tshirt with the words "I'm bulletproof" on. Worse than pointless.

Those things are not making you safer, they are just making you feel smarter while acting dumber. It's a fantasy masquerading as a plan.
I am a complete zero at "proxy" and "protection".

I have one computer that is completely offline. Hasnt been connected to the net since installing and activitating the programs.

Data transfer only by SD card. (What is in a name. lol. (sd is sicherheidsdienst)).

regretfullySaid
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Re: Mods, please do something

Post by regretfullySaid » Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:12 am

On the flipside I would think after living in E Germany it would be common practice to keep any incriminating statements from leaving your head plus there's that other thing called common sense to, so....

Tom must be pretty guilty of something if he thinks Tha Aluma Notty is going to look on a music software forum for some incriminating evidence...

What did you do, Tom?
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Re: Mods, please do something

Post by re:dream » Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:19 am

In East Germany, being a normal human being with your own opinions, and a tendency not to go along with bullshit was enough to make you seem a subversive. Add to that the fact that someone who disliked you could shop you to the authorities on flimsy pretexts and you have the grounds for paranoia.

You may think Tom's caution extreme. But once bitten, twice shy. And it may make sense to practice universal precaution.

I can't speak for Tom, but I think you should think twice before ridiculing someone whose circumstances oh don't know.
Last edited by re:dream on Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

derzai
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Re: Mods, please do something

Post by derzai » Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:23 am

Not to put oil on the fire, but the european intellegence/surveillance might be far worse than the american.

I am actually quite sure about this.

The center of Amsterdam for example. There is camera's every 20 meters. wide angle cameras, tele lens camera's, zoom camera's.

There is a control center where police officers are monitoring these camera's 24/7.

It is not a secret, i saw it on tv.

Then I heard Holland has the highest density of telefone taps.

I dont give a shit.

Whenever i feel somebody is watching my pron i put on some scat movie, and then go watching tv.

Gives me a good feeling, even if i cant proof anything, or probably am completely wrong.

derzai
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Re: Mods, please do something

Post by derzai » Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:35 am

re:dream wrote:In East Germany, being a normal human being with your own opinions, and a tendency not to go along with bullshit was enough to make you seem a subversive. Add to that the fact that someone who disliked you could shop you to the authorities on flimsy pretexts and you have the grounds for paranoia.

You may think Tom's caution extreme. But once bitten, twice shy. And it may make sense to practice universal precaution.

I can't speak for Om, but I think you should think twice before ridiculing someone whose circumstances oh don't know.
Yeh one could say he is paranoid, but what if "they" are really after him?

derzai
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Re: Mods, please do something

Post by derzai » Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:55 am

Een telefoontap (ook afluisteren of afluisteren van telefoongesprekken genoemd) is het monitoren van telefoon- en/of internetconversaties door een derde partij, en gebeurt meestal in het geheim. Dit wil zeggen dat de converserende partijen niet op de hoogte zijn van het aftappen. Voor het legaal aftappen door politie of andere overheidsinstanties is in Nederland toestemming van de rechter-commissaris vereist. Dit is een van de bijzondere opsporingsmethoden.

In Nederland worden aanzienlijk meer telefoontaps geplaatst dan in vergelijkbare landen. In de tweede helft van 2007 werden er per dag in Nederland haast 1700 telefoons afgeluisterd, terwijl in de Verenigde Staten in 2007 'slechts' 2200 taps werden geplaatst. In een half jaar werden in Nederland haast 12500 taps geplaatst.[1] In het programma Buitenhof van 22 november 2009 verklaarde de voorzitter van het College van procureurs-generaal, Harm Brouwer, dat het in Nederland in 2008 om 26.000 taps ging, tegenover 2200 in de Verenigde Staten. Op 12 september 2009 schreef Vrij Nederland dat minister van Justitie Hirsch Ballin een week daarvoor aan de Kamer vertelde dat er 26.425 telefoontaps waren gepleegd in 2009. In 2012 werden 25.487 telefoontaps en bijna 17.000 internettaps geplaatst[2


In the second half of 2007 holland had 12500 taps, the usa "only" 2200 taps.

holland has 17 million inhabitants, usa 300+.

In 2012 in holland 25,487 telefone taps and 17,000 internet taps.

derzai
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Re: Mods, please do something

Post by derzai » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:02 am

the swiss are even worse. on every 10 swiss their secret police keeps a record for one.

derzai
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Re: Mods, please do something

Post by derzai » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:07 am

911:Joris Demmink scandal

The Netherlands faces the most criminal of paedophilic gangs and a total breakdown of law and order. Elite of Dutch politicians and Dutch law-enforcement involved. Government blackmailed for years and years. Biggest media-cover up in the history of Dutch press.
Outline of Dutch Joris Demmink-case for the international media.
Facts about the Dutch Dutroux-case and the blackmailing of government:
In the summer of 1996 Marc Dutroux was arrested in Belgium. In the ensuing process, which resulted in his conviction in 2004, many indications and documents pointed at the involvement of Dutch politicians and other important people in the abuse of children for sexual purposes. These leads however were never followed.
File:Joris Demmink.jpg In 1998 the Dutch prosecutors in Amsterdam were working on the so called ‘Rolodex case’ in which a bunch of very high-ranking people were suspected of being member of a gang of abusers of children. Among those people were a former minister of the cabinet, the personal counsel of queen Beatrix and two leading criminal prosecutors. The police was already preparing to make arrests and search houses, when the whole operation was killed. It later emerged in the so called ‘Runderkamp-papers’ (named after Lex Runderkamp, a leading journalist from the NOS, the Dutch main news-medium, who worked on the case) that a very high official in the Ministry of Justice in the Hague, mr. Joris Demmink, played a strange role in the affair: he was suspected of being a member of the gang but also leaked information from the prosecution to the suspects. Police officers and also mr. Runderkamp thought that this role of Demmink was behind the decision to cancel the ‘Rolodex-operation’ as suspects were warned and had the chance to destroy evidence.
In april 1998 Dutch television-documentary Netwerk broadcasted two items about a bunch of criminals smuggling young children to the Netherlands from Eastern Europe for sexual purposes. Netwerk laid hands on telephone-taps from the Rolodex-case; in these taps we hear a very high ranking official from the Ministry of Justice named ‘Joris’ ‘ordering’ some children for the weekend. The official identity of this ‘Joris’ has never been officially clarified, although now it is a ‘public secret’ that it is Joris Demmink.
In November 2002 mr. Joris Demmink is appointed as the highest official on legal matters in the Netherlands. As his appointment lay on the table, there were 40 warnings and indications of his criminal sexual behavior. They were all laid aside.
In October 2003 two Dutch magazines published long and detailed stories about mr. Joris Demmink abusing under-aged prostitutes in a public park in the south of the country (city of Eindhoven). It was published that he used his state-paid limousine to abuse young children on the back bench. The cabinet reacted vehemently by saying it were all lies. One week later however, one of the abused children in the park indicts mr. Demmink for criminal offense. Two days later it is made known by the cabinet that the indiction was ‘false’. Demmink in the meantime confesses to two journalists that he has had sex with under-aged children . This is later reported by the NOS evening journal on television. But than the lawyers for Demmink start fighting the allegation, resulting in a ‘sort of’ rectification by the NOS.
There are rumours that the limousine driver "Mosterd" died under 'mysterious circumstances', as did physician Joyce Labruyere (who had filed a complained to the Dutch Attorney General about this case) and parliamentary-commission inquiry head of the IRT-scandal Maarten van Traa (who - it is claimed - discovered links between that national scandal and the Dutch pedophile network)
In april 2007 the whole affair gets an international dimension as a lawyer for an important Turkish-Kurdish businessman Hüseyin Bayba?in (see also: [1], [2]), and politician again indicts mr. Demmink for sexual abuse of children. This lawyer has the most shocking of stories, all very well documented with tapes, video’s and Turkish police-reports. The basis of this new allegation is that the Turkish government has blackmailed the Dutch government by threatening to ask for the eviction of mr. Demmink to Turkey for sexual crimes committed in Turkey if the Dutch did not put the Kurdish businessman in jale for life. The Turkish government wanted to get rid of this businessman because he had evidence that the Turkish government at that time (under Tansu Ciller) was heavily involved in exporting of drugs and was spreading this evidence around the world. The Dutch government succumbs to the Turks, mainly because the Turks have photographs of Demmink abusing children in Turkey, and organize a complete ‘fake-process’ to get the Kurdish businessman convicted. In this process they used specially fabricated and manipulated telephone-taps. That these taps were fake has been proven by more than ten specialists from the Netherlands and the USA.
In 2008 there are many more indications that the whole legal system in the Netherlands is corrupted by blackmail as many big criminals can walk free for the most bizarre of reasons. Again the Rolodex-case comes to the forefront: the indications of blackmail focus around cases handled by prosecutors who were also member of the abusive gang. Another indication for blackmail are the 20 or so cases in which highly classified files were ‘lost’ or ‘stolen’ from high-ranking officials. These files mostly contained information about high-profile criminal investigations.
In the summer of 2008 the Dutch government denies any indication of criminal offense by mr. Demmink or by other high-ranking officials. Demmink is still in function in the Ministry of Justice. The lawyer for the Kurdish businessman now has appealed against a court-ruling not to prosecute mr. Demmink. The higher court is due to rule in September about this appeal. This is the last chance of mr. Demmink being brought to justice.
The last medium in the Netherlands researching this case has stopped working on it in 2007. At this moment, the media keep quiet or are protecting mr. Demmink by writing that he is a ‘victim of a slandering-operation by criminal gangs’ without elaborating any further. I have written many stories about this case on the internet and want it to come out in the international media as I have not the slightest doubt on the extreme seriousness of the situation in my country.
This is a ‘master-link’ summarizing the basic facts. Underneath this link are many more links solidifying the evidence.
Joris Demmink scandal: Facts overview (most is in Dutch however)
More articles from researcher Micha Kat: klokkenluideronline.nl/artikel/author/micha-kat/
Video:
Onderzoek tegen de hoogste ambtenaar van Justitie Joris Demmink (2007-4-13)
Opnieuw ophef over secretaris-generaal van Justitie Joris D - EénVandaag (2007-6-13)
De verboden Arrow radio uitzending van Adam Curry - part 1 van 3 (2008-7-10)

http://www.thebabylonmatrix.com/index.p ... nk_scandal
Last edited by derzai on Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

TomViolenz
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Re: Mods, please do something

Post by TomViolenz » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:09 am

stringtapper wrote:But Angstrom's well-founded point is moot anyway because no one really gives a shit about what "Tom" from Germany thinks about American politics or any other current event in the first place.

And that's the funniest part really. He's not even worried about a real danger like having his licenses or credit card numbers stolen but rather about some impending fascist witch hunt he perceives is on the horizon and for which he would be one of their prime targets.

:lol:

Give me a fucking break.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

:|
I've lived through times where people went to jail for telling jokes. If you think this will never come back you are a much bigger optimist than I have thought you to be.

Now the question may be, if times like these are coming back.
You think this pseudo democracy with semi freedom will stay as it is, while I see it crumbling around us with blistering speed.

I hope you're the one who got it right, but I rather prepare in case you're not.

TomViolenz
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Re: Mods, please do something

Post by TomViolenz » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:13 am

re:dream wrote:Well, string, you did not grow up in East Germany.

Methinks that if you had experienced real authoritarian government, and seen its insidious power to corrupt the day to day actions of ordinary people, you might be paranoid about such things in the future too
My fear is furthered because I see the same structures rebuilding.

The secret organisations being so above the law, that the politicians don't dare to question them anymore.
Media that might well be state owned for as much as they practice propaganda.
New measures that allow the surveilance of everyone with an ease and to an extend that the Stasi could only dream of.
etc, etc, etc

TomViolenz
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Re: Mods, please do something

Post by TomViolenz » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:33 am

shadx312 wrote:On the flipside I would think after living in E Germany it would be common practice to keep any incriminating statements from leaving your head plus there's that other thing called common sense to, so....

Tom must be pretty guilty of something if he thinks Tha Aluma Notty is going to look on a music software forum for some incriminating evidence...

What did you do, Tom?
Ha, I wish :lol:
I'm really as insignificant as you all already know :mrgreen:

But, if we talk about the structure of how this would go down. No, I don't think anyone is looking specifically for me on a music forum (otherwise my opsec would be indeed way too little way too late - though I don't use gmail or any other google products ;-))

The way it would work, is that at some time in that future you piss someone off. Maybe you have a job he wants for a friend, or you're sleeping with his ex-wife, or you questioned him in a bad moment....whatever.

Then they will use their search engines to search for incriminating things about you.
And everything you ever did under your name will show up to be mined for anything they can use.

In my example above I said people went to jail for telling jokes, but that is not the whole of that story.

Did everyone go to jail, who told jokes about our leaders? Hell no! We even told them as children to each other in the holiday youth camps.
Were the people telling these jokes the most dangerous to the system? Hardly, because then they had much more on them that they could have used.

No in all likelihood you just pissed off the wrong guy :x

As to someone growing up in East Germany always keeping a tight lip :oops:

I admit I was naive and believed in this democracy coverstory. That this time it will be different.

Only the non-reaction to the Snowden revalations woke me up to the real nature of the system we live in. (Not the revalations themselves, but the very obvious fact that the people can't do a damn thing about it!)
But now it's just hitting me smack in the face everywhere I turn. How could I have been so blind?! :x

TomViolenz
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Re: Mods, please do something

Post by TomViolenz » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:44 am

derzai wrote: The Netherlands faces the most criminal of paedophilic gangs and a total breakdown of law and order.
Whenever I hear anyone talking about sexual child abuse in the media, I know that they are just delivering the new boogyman to justify our surveilance.

This boogyman is meant for all the people, who are not sufficiently frightend yet by the other boogyman: terrorism.

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