I keep dreaming of a... delay effect with a sensible GUI

[mrdelurk]

I tried Aether, Replika and Valhalla. Replika doesn't even show up in my Ableton (though I can see the .dll in the right directory). Aether sounds lovely, much clearer than my old reverb. If I chain both reverbs, I do get the huge Canyon-style background rumble I was aiming for. Valhalla sounds nice, like Tal-Dub's twin.

About awful GUI's: yeah, there's nothing like buttons one can't fathom even after reading the manual. Four "boinks" should require 30 buttons (of any kind) to start with.

As far as PACE, I used PACE since version 1.0., often without knowing. Something I discovered is when a new program installs its own PACE driver, oblivious to it running already, this often hoses my older PACE-dependent program. And I tend to discover that at the worst moment. So over the years I adopted an "my old app gets PACE, anything else wanting it, nuke it" policy.

To recap, if I chain my old reverb, Aether, and throw Tal-Dub in there, I get close to my Canyon-like delay objective. No simple single delay effect does this all alone, but chaining 3 is still less than chaining 8 what I did until now. We got progress.

[Stromkraft]

At the suggestion from Steko I used the PACE uninstallation script for OS X available in the PACE LicenseSupportInstaller. That's a direct link. Support page here. I don't see anything for Windows.

The script stops the LicenseD daemon, if running, and unloads interlok kexts, which have been installed into the OS X system, and deletes the other installed files. You can open this in Automator to see what it does (long). It looks benign.

I'm happy to report that after a restart in Live 9.1.6 the M4L devices Dub Machines, Convolution Reverb and Instant Haus all operate normally. I assume this will be the case for all M4L devices.

It's possible a Max update, reauthorize, fresh install or reinstall will necessitate to redo the Max installation with Pacifist to avoid reinstallation of Interlok/PACE. But for now I feel like I've been liberated. It's not that I noticed any ill effects of PACE, but I'd like to know when that kind of software is installed. We'll see what demos may break now, but I suppose they had timed out anyway.

[eyeknow]

I'm sorry, I assumed the OP would have tried "replika" long before starting this thread. Yeah, it's buggy as f...k. But I still think that people should grab it because they are going to fix it and it's pretty bitchen (when it works, I can use it in bitwig for example)

[mrdelurk]

I'm sorry, I assumed the OP would have tried "replika" long before starting this thread.

Usually I try to use as little NI stuff as I can (even if it's free), since I discovered a while back how the NI installer does a hidden unauthorized house search on the user's drives without any warning and reports the results to NI.

[eyeknow]

I respect that. But you de-virginized

[Stromkraft]

I'm sorry, I assumed the OP would have tried "replika" long before starting this thread.

Usually I try to use as little NI stuff as I can (even if it's free), since I discovered a while back how the NI installer does a hidden unauthorized house search on the user's drives without any warning and reports the results to NI.

You have details on this?

[mrdelurk]

It was years ago, but basically as I tried to register NI products I bought, I opted for the indirect route, creating a registration file that is sent via email to NI so I can check what the file says about me first.

So I created the registration file, I pulled it into Word by force, (can't remember if I had to change the file's extension to .zip and unzip it first as it's the custom with Ableton Bug Report files). Anyhow, between the file's strings of garble, there it was... the whole nine yards. Not just the given NI product's name I was registering, but every sound library I had on my computer, even non-Kontakt ones I believe. Also names of installed software not related to NI in any way I could conceive. From the looks of it, NI's program did a house search on my computer without any warrant, probable cause or notification.

So instead of sending that file to NI, I mailed them a paper registration letter with all the serials for the products I wanted to register with proofs of purchase. They promptly never responded in any form ever, probably waiting for me to beg and grovel. Which promptly also never happened next. And this is the story of my relationship with NI. I don't mention it online unless people ask, then it gets posted, then NI (most certainly) reads it, and promptly does nothing again. See? We're doing a perfect teamwork ignoring each other with NI.

[Stromkraft]

At the suggestion from Steko I used the PACE uninstallation script for OS X available in …

I'm happy to report that after a restart in Live 9.1.6 the M4L devices Dub Machines, Convolution Reverb and Instant Haus all operate normally. I assume this will be the case for all M4L devices.

OK, so everything worked as I said. But I kept getting total crashes when I moved and tested plug-ins, some of these new VSTs and unrelated to M4L, loaded external tracks into the current song and similar non-daily administrative tasks. I actually didn't work with M4L that much, but I added M4L tools to the project and they were in project all the time.

While I can't attribute this to Max and lack of PACE, this was the first period with crashes, since about one year without normal usage crashes. I've done similar things for months in similar patterns. As many plug-ins were new I can't tell if they are involved.

I reinstalled Max, including PACE, and we shall see if the crashes stop or not.

Be careful out there…

[drchoc]

the simplest GUI is no GUI at all.

put a Simple Delay [full-wet with the plug's internal "feedback" parameter set to zero] into a Return track.

feed that Return channel back to itself, You might have to right-click "Enable Send" to do this.

after the Simple Delay put an EQ8 with a sweepable parametric mid-boost.

now assign the 3 following parameters to 3 hardware knobs or faders: the Return channel's volume, the Return channel's feedback amount to itself, and finally the frequency parameter of your parametric mid-poke in the EQ8.

thats the old school. now you have an infinite ocean of dub techniques to play with. to play with your hands. no GUI at all.

works for me
/2c

Great tip thank you.
I've always enjoyed enabling the sends for proper feedback. Watch your levels though.

[Stromkraft]

the simplest GUI is no GUI at all.

put a Simple Delay [full-wet with the plug's internal "feedback" parameter set to zero] into a Return track.

feed that Return channel back to itself, You might have to right-click "Enable Send" to do this.

after the Simple Delay put an EQ8 with a sweepable parametric mid-boost.

now assign the 3 following parameters to 3 hardware knobs or faders: the Return channel's volume, the Return channel's feedback amount to itself, and finally the frequency parameter of your parametric mid-poke in the EQ8.

thats the old school. now you have an infinite ocean of dub techniques to play with. to play with your hands. no GUI at all.

And all of this fits nicely in a Live effects rack. I love racks!

[Stromkraft]

I've always enjoyed enabling the sends for proper feedback. Watch your levels though.

One nice way to control feedback is to put a limiter on the end. I use that on Dub Machine's Magnetic.

[mrdelurk]

the simplest GUI is no GUI at all.
put a Simple Delay [full-wet with the plug's internal "feedback" parameter set to zero] into a Return track. (snip)

Pitch Black, your post was pure gold. I'm replying late because I couldn't stop exploring this idea. Added more effects, recorded the sub out to an audio track, etc...
When I was a kid, I used to play this feedback trick with a Studiomaster analog mixer. So I'm familiar with the "it's chirping all alone, here comes the feedback take off!" moment )

[Pitch Black]

the simplest GUI is no GUI at all.
put a Simple Delay [full-wet with the plug's internal "feedback" parameter set to zero] into a Return track. (snip)

Pitch Black, your post was pure gold. I'm replying late because I couldn't stop exploring this idea. Added more effects, recorded the sub out to an audio track, etc...
When I was a kid, I used to play this feedback trick with a Studiomaster analog mixer. So I'm familiar with the "it's chirping all alone, here comes the feedback take off!" moment )

So great to hear, cheers! This IS the oldest trick in the book for dub delays. Because your effects are chained within the feedback loop, every successive delay iteration gets re-sculpted by the EQ plus whatever other effects you've got. And every gain-point you alter within the chain will give you a different sound, or at least a different dub behaviour.

[Stromkraft]

At the suggestion from Steko I used the PACE uninstallation script for OS X available in …

I'm happy to report that after a restart in Live 9.1.6 the M4L devices Dub Machines, Convolution Reverb and Instant Haus all operate normally. I assume this will be the case for all M4L devices.

OK, so everything worked as I said. But I kept getting total crashes when I moved and tested plug-ins, some of these new VSTs and unrelated to M4L, loaded external tracks into the current song and similar non-daily administrative tasks. I actually didn't work with M4L that much, but I added M4L tools to the project and they were in project all the time.

While I can't attribute this to Max and lack of PACE, this was the first period with crashes, since about one year without normal usage crashes. I've done similar things for months in similar patterns. As many plug-ins were new I can't tell if they are involved.

I reinstalled Max, including PACE, and we shall see if the crashes stop or not.

Be careful out there…

I've reinstalled and so far no crashes also with M4L devices. I think the actual cause was some kind of cascading effect due to multiple or conflicting PACE/Interlok instances. I removed a lot of demos lurking around that could have been involved, But I'm not sure on either of these. The important thing is I have stable system again.

I just added some background delay to a vocal with Dub Machines. Wonderful…

[eyeknow]

Strange.

M4L, an enigma unto itself.

(edited, I really am losing what is left on my mind)