lost inspiration

[Martin Gifford]

Stromkraft,

Interesting take there. Pure art should challenge capitalism, and every other ism, because purity is beyond isms. I think of All You Need Is Love by the Beatles. Although it can be dismissed as unrealistic idealism, it still challenges the status quo. It leaves like a question mark hovering in the back of people's minds. I'm excited by this thought. But the Beatles had talent and popularity, so their art had impact. I feel like getting together with really tuned in people and creating some profound songs. Unlikely. You have to be on the same wavelength philosophically and strategically.

You also reminded me of an additional category to pure art and political art: there is commercial art - producing art for business purposes. That has twisted into a strange situation where the songs of some pop stars are actually advertisements for the pop star. The pop star says "You're dancing with will.i.am and Britney" or whatever. How far can it go? "I am popstar xyz, buy this record cos then you'll be cool. Buy this record, buy this record." It's kind of postmodern but also the lowest base capitalism. It's also weird that famous successful people would be so desperate.

Tom,

You got me thinking about reversing thoughts. Instead of society having what the artist needs to survive, what if the artist has what society needs to survive?

As far as going against society, I've done it for 35 years without reward - wrote a book, screenplays, and songs. Absolutely exhausted now. Being tough is the answer for a while, but a point comes when you are absolutely ground down. Nothing but worldly success can rekindle the passion then, afaik. Spent the last 15 years on a book that society needs but does not want (15 years because questioning society opens up a can of worms that takes years to sort out, which explains why no one does it). Ouch. Part of the inspiration is to have a big impact on society. If you cannot succeed in that then a large chunk of the inspiration goes. So there is the issue of toughness vs reality. Can you be tough and continue on even knowing that you will not succeed?

The OP question was finding inspiration. What was the original inspiration for her/him? That's a good question for all of us. I know jazz guys whose original inspiration was Jimi Hendrix and the ended up doing mindy jazz using constantly changing modes and odd time signatures, and they wonder where the passion went! For me it was the Beatles. They were like UFOs descending and talking to me in the working class suburbs of Sydney. I wondered, Where did all that magical creativity come from?

[TomViolenz]

Tom,
You got me thinking about reversing thoughts. Instead of society having what the artist needs to survive, what if the artist has what society needs to survive?

As far as going against society, I've done it for 35 years without reward - wrote a book, screenplays, and songs. Absolutely exhausted now. Being tough is the answer for a while, but a point comes when you are absolutely ground down. Nothing but worldly success can rekindle the passion then, afaik. Spent the last 15 years on a book that society needs but does not want (15 years because questioning society opens up a can of worms that takes years to sort out, which explains why no one does it). Ouch. Part of the inspiration is to have a big impact on society. If you cannot succeed in that then a large chunk of the inspiration goes. So there is the issue of toughness vs reality. Can you be tough and continue on even knowing that you will not succeed?

No one promised us a rose garden
Failing is always a likely option. That's why you need balls to withstand this.
Just ask the likes of van Gogh (not a single picture sold during his lifetime) or Kafka (not a single story published before his death)

My statement towards needing balls and not being a whiny coward is solely aimed at art. As Jonathan Meese says: Art is a dictatorship! You assert your way of feeling and thinking on the masses and ram it down their throats. No ifs and buts and maybes and why won't anyone listen and why is it so hard to live from my great art..... yada yada
I am ready to feel empathy with the burned out artist as a human being. But I can't and won't have any pity on his art. That needs to stand by itself against the winds blowing in its face, neither asking for permission nor forgiveness.

[sporkles]

TomViolenz: the artist hero the world needs, but not the artist hero it deserves

[Martin Gifford]

No one promised us a rose garden Failing is always a likely option. That's why you need balls to withstand this. Just ask the likes of van Gogh (not a single picture sold during his lifetime) or Kafka (not a single story published before his death)... My statement towards needing balls and not being a whiny coward is solely aimed at art. As Jonathan Meese says: Art is a dictatorship! You assert your way of feeling and thinking on the masses and ram it down their throats. No ifs and buts and maybes... I am ready to feel empathy with the burned out artist as a human being. But I can't and won't have any pity on his art. That needs to stand by itself against the winds blowing in its face, neither asking for permission nor forgiveness.

Dude! Did you write that? I think you missed your calling. You should be a writer! That's a fantastic quote! Seriously, that is kick-ass!

Anyway...

You said earlier that I should be aware of your reality due to my universal consciousness. The reason I am not aware is because of you. You and others like you keep dragging us down into materialism, and societal standards of "reality".

Re our identity: You are pure consciousness. To see this, experiment with the idea that your senses will not help you see what you are. They only register objects, not the subject. Just take 5 minutes or a day or a weekend to look: What's left after you negate each of the five senses? Hint: What you are is prior to "pattern recognition". I dare you!

As for what you've been writing about heroic art: At a certain level, it just goes way over people's heads. I've been blocked from the websites of some of the smartest people I've met. Seems shoving it down their throats doesn't work. Nothing works. If you keep pushing the boundaries until you get to the truth, well, the truth sets you free until you realise you need others to be free too, yet they space out, their eyes glaze over, they react with dumb societal brainwashing. Then what? It's a case of be careful what you ask for. If you ask for the truth, the truth might shock you.

In principle it is easy for us all to rise to a higher octave of living. But the media, school, parents, and friends, keep people within the matrix.

[TomViolenz]

TomViolenz: the artist hero the world needs, but not the artist hero it deserves

I'm a whiny coward bitch too (as many in the Lounge can attest to), I just try to keep my art free from that

[TomViolenz]

You said earlier that I should be aware of your reality due to my universal consciousness. The reason I am not aware is because of you. You and others like you keep dragging us down into materialism, and societal standards of "reality".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_materialism

That's the only materialism I value

And concerning society and me, we have decided to go separate ways quite some years ago.

Re our identity: You are pure consciousness. To see this, experiment with the idea that your senses will not help you see what you are. They only register objects, not the subject. Just take 5 minutes or a day or a weekend to look: What's left after you negate each of the five senses? Hint: What you are is prior to "pattern recognition". I dare you!

You want so desperately that there is more to us than reality, that we matter somehow.
But there isn't and we don't.

We are hairless apes with hardcoded instincts and responses to patterns and a tiny sliver of capacity to evaluate these patterns, so that we can match them up against other patterns.

We name it consciousness, for the same reason we invent the spiritual. We can't live with us not being important and in control.

You probably think your spirituality is a strength, but it's a weakness, because it's just you not wanting to face the truth.
Nothing matters, everything is empty and all WILL be forgotten someday.

But I'll leave this faux quote here because it's apt AND funny

MORPHEUS: For the longest time, I wouldn't believe it. But then I saw the fields with my own eyes, watched them liquefy the dead so they could be fed intravenously to the living -

NEO (politely): Excuse me, please.

MORPHEUS: Yes, Neo?

NEO: I've kept quiet for as long as I could, but I feel a certain need to speak up at this point. The human body is the most inefficient source of energy you could possibly imagine. The efficiency of a power plant at converting thermal energy into electricity decreases as you run the turbines at lower temperatures. If you had any sort of food humans could eat, it would be more efficient to burn it in a furnace than feed it to humans. And now you're telling me that their food is the bodies of the dead, fed to the living? Haven't you ever heard of the laws of thermodynamics?

MORPHEUS: Where did you hear about the laws of thermodynamics, Neo?

NEO: Anyone who's made it past one science class in high school ought to know about the laws of thermodynamics!

MORPHEUS: Where did you go to high school, Neo?

(Pause.)

NEO: ...in the Matrix.

MORPHEUS: The machines tell elegant lies.

(Pause.)

NEO (in a small voice): Could I please have a real physics textbook?

MORPHEUS: There is no such thing, Neo. The universe doesn't run on math.

That's how I regularly feel when I'm talking to superstitionalists of all strides

As for what you've been writing about heroic art: At a certain level, it just goes way over people's heads. I've been blocked from the websites of some of the smartest people I've met. Seems shoving it down their throats doesn't work. Nothing works. If you keep pushing the boundaries until you get to the truth, well, the truth sets you free until you realise you need others to be free too, yet they space out, their eyes glaze over, they react with dumb societal brainwashing. Then what? It's a case of be careful what you ask for. If you ask for the truth, the truth might shock you.

In principle it is easy for us all to rise to a higher octave of living. But the media, school, parents, and friends, keep people within the matrix.

You are not talking about art, you are talking about wanting others to recognize your art. This makes yourself dependent and your art derivative.

[Martin Gifford]

Tom,

The problem with Marx's view is that he began with the assumption that everyone is motivated by survival, which is the same mistake Darwin made. In reality, everyone is ultimately motivated by happiness. There's no point to survival alone. As soon as survival is established, we move on to seeking happiness.

The reason people dominate others isn't for survival. It's for happiness, even though domination is a bad method for happiness. Marx says we should not get philosophical but should study history intimately. Well, if you do, you see that people with no free time seek survival, and those who have free time seek happiness. It's also implicit in his theory of revolution. Why do people want to revolt if they are surviving? It's because they are unhappy. Therefore, happiness is the key.

You say you parted ways with society. If you have no reference point outside of scientific materialism or Marx's materialism, then you cannot have parted ways with society because both are products of society.

You want so desperately that there is more to us than reality, that we matter somehow. But there isn't and we don't.... We name it consciousness, for the same reason we invent the spiritual. We can't live with us not being important and in control. You probably think your spirituality is a strength, but it's a weakness, because it's just you not wanting to face the truth. Nothing matters, everything is empty and all WILL be forgotten someday.

Actually, I don't think we matter. I don't want to be important and in control. I don't think spirituality is a strength. Its just that there is more to reality than matter. It's not something I believe. I experienced it. However, it is true that tuning into yourself allows you to realise the happiness of being which frees you from dependence on the world to some extent. It is the happiness everyone wants but is seeking in the wrong place.

You are not talking about art, you are talking about wanting others to recognize your art. This makes yourself dependent and your art derivative.

I thought you said you were making art that society needs. Maybe you mean society needs pure art. Pure art is pure expression of potential. Influencing society is part of our potential. Art that is partly aimed at influencing society is a valid potential. It would only be derivative if the person has no new ideas and/or doesn't take risks. If the art doesn't influence society, then the artist will feel unfulfilled.

[TomViolenz]

Tom,

The problem with Marx's view is that he began with the assumption that everyone is motivated by survival, which is the same mistake Darwin made.....................

You sure talk a good game

Lets just leave it at that

[tedlogan]

TomV : You want so desperately that there is more to us than reality, that we matter somehow.
But there isn't and we don't.

We are hairless apes with hardcoded instincts and responses to patterns and a tiny sliver of capacity to evaluate these patterns, so that we can match them up against other patterns.

We name it consciousness, for the same reason we invent the spiritual. We can't live with us not being important and in control.

You probably think your spirituality is a strength, but it's a weakness, because it's just you not wanting to face the truth.
Nothing matters, everything is empty and all WILL be forgotten someday.

Amen. This is IT. Anything more attributed to us and life in general are comfort blankets.

It is fucking cold and empty, and that is it.

[mrdelurk]

If you have no reference point outside of scientific materialism or Marx's materialism, then you cannot have parted ways with society because both are products of society.

And they are not just *any* products, but (like every ideology) - show business products. Musicians who by trade deal in show business should be able to recognize related work. (My 2 cents)