These Crazy Conspiracy theorists...Rave to this

Emissary · Post by **Emissary** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:30 pm

dtm wrote: The UK tried to follow suit- to no avail, so they introduced the 'repetitive beat' laws. These laws deemed any music with a repetitive beat (i.e. 4/4 techno) was in fact noise pollution.

No wonder my parties dont get shut down when i'm blaring out Aphex twin....they just thought it was random nosie..........oh hang on a second......

trash · Post by **trash** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 5:59 pm

nice post dtm..

i still think though we *are* already in a police state in both countries
the UK is not so bad but its trying to follow suit..
people are blind to it
they dont know the facts and they care little
*unless* it comes directly into their lives
as in this case
where people out to have a good time are stopped from doing it..
i would like to see more activists spurred on without these sort of personal triggers and by their own research and volition..
this is the way forward and i hope that by seeing my extreme opinion (i.e. this pathetic little problem) they will be shocked into thinking that there must be something they dont know...

Agent47 · Post by **Agent47** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 6:12 pm

Why is it that the largest threads on the ABLETON LIVE forum are bickering about politics, which frankly musicians generally know jack squat about?

"If you're listening to a rock star in order to get your information on who to vote for, you're a bigger moron than they are. Why are we rock stars? Because we're morons. We sleep all day, we play music at night and very rarely do we sit around reading the Washington Journal."
-Alice Cooper

I think his statement MORE than applies to the electronic music scene as well.

What a bunch of Chomsky loving commies some of you are. Go give Michael Moore a hand job and be done with it why dont ya.

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 6:17 pm

Agent47 wrote:Why is it that the largest threads on the ABLETON LIVE forum are bickering about politics, which frankly musicians generally know jack squat about?

FWIW I study Arabic Language and Culture at the University of Copenhagen. I can't see how me playing a bit of guitar and owning Live 3 changes that.

Agent47 · Post by **Agent47** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 6:29 pm

I was referring to the general music community having a definite tendency towards "liberal" thought, and by that I mean modern liberalism, not classic liberalism- big differance. Just take a look at all the anti-Bush themed concerts during the elections.

It always makes me think of Monty Python's Holy Grail "I'm being repressed!" ha. Yeah such oppression here in the good ole USA! We cant do illegal drugs and drink underage!! Waaaa!!! ha.

Also, what does studying Arabic language and culture have to do with world politics? Frankly, I know plenty of political science majors that don't know the first thing about how politics work.

Hey, lets all remember why we are here, regardless if we have totally differant ideas about the world, politics, sex , whatever- we ALL LOVE MUSIC- otherwise we wouldn't be on this forum in the first place.

anonymouse · Post by **anonymouse** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 6:56 pm

these damn liberals and their war in iraq, their restricting of civil liberties, their croneyism and their control of the media.

I hope the conservative evangelical right manages to make a comeback and get some sort of presence in Washington again. These liberals are ruining our country with their war and their greed.

Agent47 · Post by **Agent47** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:02 pm

Yeah the war in Iraq is really ruining things here in America.

Restriction of civil liberties? Which liberties are being restricted exactly? You can no longer go to the terminal to meet people at the airport, that is true...what oppression!! I carry a gun legally every day, what oppression!! I need to move to some wonderful place like France where I can be truly free and pay 75% taxes!

Oh and your comment on the media is hilarious- the right wing control the media??!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Agent47 · Post by **Agent47** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:53 pm

To get back on topic:

The Provo Daily Herald has a reasoned and balanced take on the incident, questioning both attendees and law enforcement:

"Some attendees have complained of excessive force by law enforcement. They say cops and "soldiers" pointed guns at them, punched girls in the face and unleashed an arsenal of everything from attack dogs to tear gas. "They proceeded to attack random people and push their might around on people who had done nothing," according to one e-mail. Said Josh Witbeck, a nightclub bar bouncer hired for security: "I'm not going to place all the blame on the police, but they treated every person here like a criminal."
Ravers are currently circulating video footage on the Internet to back up claims of police misconduct. We viewed the video and found no indication that the police acted improperly -- no tear gas, no shots fired, no dogs chewing on kids. But one blurry video is not conclusive.

Was this raid a bit heavy-handed? Should the entire weight of police weaponry (including military-style guns capable of full-automatic fire), special tactics, dogs and helicopters be used to break up a music concert with a few hundred kids, some of whom are drunk or high? There are only a couple of ways out of the Childs property, and a crowd is easily contained. Is this truly a situation that requires full riot gear, including black face coverings that lend a Ninja-like quality to the operation?

Such questions can be answered another time, as they deal with how the law is enforced, not whether it should be. Clearly, some enforcement was needed in Diamond Fork on Saturday night.

Let's state some basic facts, just for the record. Officers of the law carry guns. It is part of what they do. They often carry nonlethal weapons, too, such as bean-bag launchers or tear gas. They make plans for dealing with potentially difficult situations. Why? Because it's their job to enforce the laws that have been duly enacted by elected authorities.

It's called enforcement for a reason. Police don't need to ask politely.

The best way to stay out of range of the police is to obey the law. It's a lesson too many people have not learned.

Having said that, however, we are concerned about the process that led to this raid, starting with Utah County permits. Commissioner Steve White was strangely evasive on this question. When asked point-blank whether a mass-gathering permit had been issued, he said he would not answer. He referred the Herald to law enforcement sources and the county attorney's office.

Childs, the property owner, said all the permits were in order and that officers seized them at the gate. It was a legal gathering, she said.

To be sure, there were a number of drug- and alcohol-related arrests and citations arising from the rave. These are fair game by any measure. Once a crime is committed, a permit may be considered null and void. But of the 43 citations reported by the Utah County Sheriff's Office, about half appear directly related to the raid itself -- disorderly conduct, failure to disperse and related acts. Most of the others could have been dealt with on a case-by-case basis, without shutting down a concert at which the majority were not breaking the law.

A massive police assault on virtually any public gathering (a BYU football game, for example) would uncover similar illegalities, from drugs to weapons to expired driver's licenses. But if a crime is committed during a BYU football game, the game is not stopped. Offenders are trundled off individually. A general suspicion that something illegal might happen at a public gathering, even a rave, may not be the best basis from which to launch a major law enforcement action.

Childs said she has retained an attorney to pursue the matter. It's a sticky wicket that illustrates some of the ambiguities inherent in a free society and the balance between freedom and responsibility.

Stay tuned for developments."

The Revrend · Post by **The Revrend** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:29 pm

Agent47 wrote:Oh and your comment on the media is hilarious- the left wing control the media??!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

**FIXED** See Clear Channel. That's all i need to say. the 'Liberal Media' Bias is the biggest line of B.S. I have ever seen. Especially since Fox surpassed CNN in ratings.

Rev

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:44 pm

Agent47 wrote:Also, what does studying Arabic language and culture have to do with world politics? Frankly, I know plenty of political science majors that don't know the first thing about how politics work

I was referring mainly to this gem:

Agent47 wrote:Funny you should find that quote, he couldn't be more right. Do you know your history sir? If you do you know that arabs enslaved Africans and sold them to the west first.

Those couple of sentences said more about your world view than needed. I can only repeat my recommendation that you substitue Bernard Lewis et al for something less... racist.

-Paws

computo · Post by **computo** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:23 pm

yeah Agent 74 is starting to suspiciously resemble Offender...

netchaiev · Post by **netchaiev** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:25 pm

uhmmm.. too many cops on this forum, to my taste..
Or maybe too many FBI agents posing as "music lovers" getting a kick.!
we do need a moderator, to keep them out!!!!!!!!!

computo · Post by **computo** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:26 pm

netchaiev · Post by **netchaiev** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:28 pm

I think Agent47 is law enforcement!!!!! No other solutions!

netchaiev · Post by **netchaiev** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:34 pm

BTW in France we do not pay 75% taxes, and as artists, do get paid when not working!!!!!( but then again it ain't so motivating then for some.) blablablah..
I saw DJ Spooky few weeks ago and he told "great move to Paris, man, in the US it's so f*cked up!". That's chilling.....

Sorry of topic but I'm sick of "spermatozoa increase" spams...