Needed advice to train my ear for subtle changes.

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
empathy1
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Re: Needed advice to train my ear for subtle changes.

Post by empathy1 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:52 pm

5argon wrote:I have a big issue here. 80% of people says Glue Compressor is good, but I can never detect difference between Glue and normal Compressor! (asides from GUI stuff like you cannot set knee in Glue etc.)

Another example is when I was told to add a bit of Dynamic Tube to my kick drum. Yeah when solo-ing I can hear the difference, but not in the whole mix. Do I supposed to believe "The kick sounds better on its own, so now it's probably doing better in the mix although I cannot hear any difference!" like this?

The same thing happened on mastering stuff. You have to made subtle adjustment. But each individual adjustment is barely intelligible.. only as a whole then you can hear the difference. But then, I cannot make any judgment if each things I adjust barely change anything and in the end the result I got is often unsatisfactory.

I'm making music for about 1 year and probably haven't improved at all in this regard compared to day one. (I can say I certainly get better at using Live and knowing plugins stuff better.) Now I think I have missed some important point and/or specific ear training required to understand subtle stuff. Any idea to help me improve myself in this? Thanks.
I'm in the same boat as you. After a little over a year, I can notice a slight improvement in my ability to draw distinctions, but I don't feel it's quite where Id like it to be yet. Having spent hours and hours on tutorials (eg. Youtube, Lynda, Coursera), I feel the addition of audio literature helps tremendously in understanding signal processing. Do some reading when it comes to specifics and what each processor is capable of; its helped me out plenty along the way, and in such a short time.

What I've gotten in the habit of doing is spending time tinkering with frequency specific instruments; I'll load a blank audio track with the "audio in" set to "resample", then disable the output on it. I'll then load a kick, hi-hat, snare, synth, whatever loop onto a separate midi track. after, I'll choose an effects processor I want to study, drop it on the midi track, then dial in settings on it. To cross reference what the actual changes in my settings are doing to the signal, I'll record an audio clip of the instrument playing onto the blank audio track to check the visual readout of the signal, and how its changes correspond to those I've made in the processor. You can do this with any combination of instruments up to an entire mix; to see where clipping is happening, where something could use a boost...etc.

Hope that helps, and if you want some screencaps to see what I mean, I can certainly do that.

Stromkraft
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Re: Needed advice to train my ear for subtle changes.

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:14 pm

re:dream wrote: (3) My point is not about normalization. It is that I find that I find that I can make my tracks sound better on the whole by using compression to tame the loudest transients.
I don't see that I argued against that at all.
Make some music!

Stromkraft
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Re: Needed advice to train my ear for subtle changes.

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:19 pm

fishmonkey wrote: the distinction between normalising and limiting that you are making is a bit confused. normalizing and limiting both increase the loudness of a track. for example, a limiter set with a high threshold and makeup gain to take you close to 0 dBFS is effectively working as a normalizer.

if you are already happy with the dynamic range and loudness of your mix, then there is nothing wrong with normalizing, although it is probably a good idea to leave a little headroom for lossy compression that might create intersample peaks.
I didn't mean normalization outside of Live export. When you raise the volume in a recorded audio track you're also "normalizing" to another level. We all know that.

"Close to 0dBfs" is not the same as 0dBFS. Limiting doesn't have to increase the volume. There are perils with using limiting as well, but I prefer those because I can control the end result better.
Make some music!

fishmonkey
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Re: Needed advice to train my ear for subtle changes.

Post by fishmonkey » Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:39 pm

Stromkraft wrote: I didn't mean normalization outside of Live export. When you raise the volume in a recorded audio track you're also "normalizing" to another level. We all know that.

"Close to 0dBfs" is not the same as 0dBFS. Limiting doesn't have to increase the volume. There are perils with using limiting as well, but I prefer those because I can control the end result better.
well, obviously i'm referring to normalising in the general sense, not just Live's export (as does the article you linked to).

just like limiting, normalising in general doesn't have to use 0 dBFS as the maximum target.

re:dream
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Re: Needed advice to train my ear for subtle changes.

Post by re:dream » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:08 pm

This may be common knowledge, but here is one way to hear what changes subtle effects like compression are doing:

- Take your track, slap a compressor on it, plus utility
- Duplicate it, and invert the phase on the second track. You should now be hearing complete silence
- Now start tweaking your glue compressor. Only the difference made by the compressor will be audible.

It's actually interesting what huge difference in audio are NOT picked up by my (untrained) ears 8O

Stromkraft
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Re: Needed advice to train my ear for subtle changes.

Post by Stromkraft » Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:46 am

re:dream wrote:This may be common knowledge, but here is one way to hear what changes subtle effects like compression are doing:

- Take your track, slap a compressor on it, plus utility
- Duplicate it, and invert the phase on the second track. You should now be hearing complete silence
- Now start tweaking your glue compressor. Only the difference made by the compressor will be audible.
Nice one, re dream.
Make some music!

Tarekith
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Re: Needed advice to train my ear for subtle changes.

Post by Tarekith » Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:40 am

Fun to do the same with a wav and MP3 of the same song, really shows you how much is lost in MP3 conversion.

re:dream
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Re: Needed advice to train my ear for subtle changes.

Post by re:dream » Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:33 pm

Tricky to do that in Live, though: I find that even with Warp turn off, there are small differences between the tracks anyway -e.g. with Live choosing slightly different start times.

Tarekith
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Re: Needed advice to train my ear for subtle changes.

Post by Tarekith » Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:46 pm

I usually put a small 1 sample long burst at the start of the wave before I convert to MP3, then you can zoom in and visually line them up.

crumhorn
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Re: Needed advice to train my ear for subtle changes.

Post by crumhorn » Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:37 am

re:dream wrote:Tricky to do that in Live, though: I find that even with Warp turn off, there are small differences between the tracks anyway -e.g. with Live choosing slightly different start times.
But, to be fair, playing Live is not the time to be worrying about barely audible "subtle changes". :)
"The banjo is the perfect instrument for the antisocial."

(Allow me to plug my guitar scale visualiser thingy - www.fretlearner.com)

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