the intricate stuff, the complex.

[sinkysaurus]

Hello everyone.

I was listening to feed me today, andbi love his music. It's incredibly intricate, multiple synths going on all over the place. It's the same withvartists such as savant, there's so much going its hard to pick out how they do it.

If ableton would let me use multiple instruments on the piano roll (like in other DAWS) I WOULD have a clearer idea on where to start, but sadly this isn't possible in ableton.

Anybody got any ideas on how to make complex multiple synth music on ableton, any good techniques? Whenever I look this up in youtube I get nothing but "growl" bass tutorials which don't interest me in the slightest.

Cheers!

[Tagor]

so far i can say, i set set up the multis within the instrument (vst), but with zones (keyranges) and instrumentracks you should be fine.
Link

so what is like in other daws ? did not get what you miss

[antarktika]

^ like Tagor said, just build a multi-instrument stack with different keyrange zones, it's not quite as elegant as ghost channels, but you can at least see all the notes in the same grid.

[Modler]

As far as I can tell, the other two posts were regarding ways to play different synths, one at a time, based upon which note you're playing. However, regarding his question on how to play multiple synths at the SAME TIME - you got me brainstorming about this and WOW! There are so many ways to do this!! Some of these I haven't tried yet too. I am actually a novice user just getting my feet wet with Ableton, so anytime you see a "_________", this indicates I'm not exactly sure but another member can go ahead and fill in the blank if they would like. In no particular order, here are some ways I would suggest:

* (best option): Create multiple MIDI racks, each with their own MIDI clip (patterns of notes) that controls it's own MIDI instrument. Trigger these clips at separate times or at the same time. Or trigger all / some of them at the same time buy lining them up in a horizontal row and clicking the scene launch button on the far right or the row. Plus optionally use the 2nd variation option below

* Send MIDI notes from one rack to multiple racks, each containing its own synth (the same synth with different settings, or a whole other synth). This can be done with selecting the midi input channel on each rack to the midi out of the track you're sending it to _________

+ variation: insert a MIDI input delay like latency delay before any of the synths the synths are not all
triggered at the same time on each note. I'm not sure if Ableton has a utility as such but probably
there is a VST solution for this, or with Bidule _________

+ variation: place VST effects at the end of any of the synths, allowing further 'awesomeization' of the
synth sound (useful types: phaser, flanger, distortion, chorus)

* Use combinations of organic and synthetic synths. Organic may not be the right term, but there's a type of synth such as when you play audio through Sampler and use its audio source as a synth either as-is, or by looping a tiny fragment which works like an oscillitor, which you could use on one or more separate racks at the same time, and have other traditional synthetic synths on other racks, using either of the above methods

* Play multiple synths at the same time through one instance of Bidule VST, inserted into a rack on Ableton. (basic parallel and some series schematic knowledge required to set up other VSTs and VSTi's (vst synth's) with its virtual cables within this VST host.

+ variation: set up MIDI delays before any of VSTi's

+ variation: Play the synths in Bidule on one rack on Ableton, at the same time as other synths in other racks of Ableton

+ Variation: (see variation 1 towards top)

+ Variation: (see variation 2 towards top)

* Randomly generated MIDI notes one some synths: using any of the methods above to play simultaneous synths, insert a random MIDI note generator plugin before some of the synths. Ableton may have a utility like this or their may be other VSTs that can do this _________

On a final note, I MUST impart this mastering tip: ALWAYS make sure NOT too many racks/channels/instruments are are outputting audio to the same part of the frequency spectrum. Give each audio signal at least a little variation (higher or lower pitch) so you're not making the bass or other sounds sound too muddy / cluttered. Work with the whole frequency, giving 'headroom' so the user can hear 'instrument separation' and the mastering person can have more room to add more sound layers.

[Modler]

UPDATE:
* Another method to play simultaneous synths on Ableton is by sending MIDI data to the midi racks all at the same time by an external instrument, using any of the config. options above

* Another method is to simultaneously play both MIDI and audio tracks at the same time; the audio tracks having recorded synths in them; recorded from within an Ableton track or from elsewhere

[yur2die4]

I'd look up tutorials by Tom Cosm and Mr Bill for starters. They make some really fun pieces and have s lot of videos where you can just watch them working on it.

Also, you'd maybe wanna look up how to do 'complextro' in Ableton Live. It's a style of music that has hard hitting gritty drums, some epic chord stabs, and a bunch of various noises scattered about.

[sinkysaurus]

Hey!

Conplextro is basically what I'm talking about. I never used that word as people seem to hate it as a term.

I read about using follow actions, I'm not a fan of this as it's too random. I want full control over the music I make. So when I listen to someone like feed me, especially songs like "onstuh? Or "chinchilla" my mind gets broken trying to figure out how he does it. Yet there is very little on this on YouTube or Forums?!

[re:dream]

There's a lot of calls for multi-track midi editing, which is what I think you are asking for here. But Feed me's music, though very busy, doesn't seem to especially require that workflow. As other have said, there's lots of ways of getting this kind of glitchy flow of one musical line over a number of synths. You've probably seen Vespers' tutorial, but in case you haven't

https://www.ableton.com/en/blog/glitch- ... l-vespers/

Also check out AK / Aporia's compendiums of tips here

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... j_6wVa8Z21

I think you will find many good ideas there for what you want to do...

[sinkysaurus]

Thanks very much! I will check this out when I get home!

[fuglykid98]

maybe he's talking about fl studio . in fl you can arrange any midi clips of any channel in any track . whereas in ableton it is only limited to their respective tracks .this makes it easier to make complex tunes .feed me , savant , porter madeon ; nearly all complextro artists use fl as their main daw

[Steve Glen]

Parallel instrument racks with different, corrected, key ranges. (Corrected via Pitch device)

Results in single clip, multi instrument note editing.