Slice to Midi - Why is it just using the original sample?

[skullNbones]

i like the fact that it does this, as you can use the warp markers as reference points to slice the sample exactly as you want it. i don't see it as that big a deal to resample to get a warped version to then slice exactly as i want. in this case they are not really warp markers at all, just start points for each slice. i guess it would be cool to have one more choice in the slice dialog box; to "slice as warped" or some shit...

[majestics]

Thanks for the answer Willyum.

Do you know anything about this?

[img]loop_shifter[/img]

This instrument is essentially a creative loop playback device that generates some surprising and innovative results. If there was ever a "sound of Max," this device embodies it. It uses MIDI notes as triggers for playback states, each MIDI note representing one such "state": a combination of playback rate, loop points and filter settings. Although the Loop Shifter is a relatively simple device, these functions don't exist yet in any other commercial loop playback product.

The Loop Shifter uses a "morphing" transition between states, an auto-mapping system and an "auto-play" mode that randomly chooses MIDI notes for automatic state selection.

[contakt321]

What do you mean by consolidating the clip? (sorry, probably a dumb question) Is this the same as the process I described? I work mostly in midi and have been using audio more and more so maybe you know a better/faster way than I do to do this.

To consolidate a clip you drag it into the arrangement and ht command J. This makes a new audio file integrating all the current settings and FX chain into the audio.

I'm not sure there would be any other way of doing what you guys are after (which is def. worthwhile) than making a new audio file...you have to understand that 2 clips, one warped and the other unwarped, can reference the same audio file. So its not so "backwards" as it is "the nature of the beast".

I'm not sure if consolidate works with midi, I don't use a lot of midi....

Thanks, sounds like this is a faster/simpler way than what I was doing (because it doesn't involve resampling). Totally makes sense.

[contakt321]

The reason this can not be done is because Ableton STILL has not put time stretch into their Sampler/Simpler.

The warp markers tell live how much to time stretch a sample from warp marker to warp marker. Being that none of the samplers have time stretch, this information gets lost in translation. Impulse has time stretch but Ableton does not allow Impulse to be a default device in 'slice to midi'.

Take a sampled drum riff that's slightly off timing that has 4 warp markers to correct it...

From marker 1 to 2 speed is fine. marker 1 time stretch = 0
From marker 2 to 3 speed is slow. marker 2 time stretch = +2
From marker 3 to 4 speed is fine. marker 3 time stretch = 0
From marker 4 to end speed is fast. marker 4 time stretch = -1

If Sampler or simpler had time stretch, or if impulse was allowed to be used. The warp marker 'time stretch' value (0,+2,0,-1) could be passed on with the slices. THEN your slices would match your warped (warp=stretch) file.

For some reason Ableton refuses to do this and has not commented (as far as I know) on this. This is not just beneficial for sample timing, it is also necessary for sample tuning. I guess they feel musicians who use sampled clips don't tune their sounds like other musicians. Or maybe ableton does not want to be associated with quality sample based music....

Willyum and Majestics:

Willyum has it correct for why this isn't just drag and drop. I agree with you guys, I wish there were a way for Sampler or Simpler to read the warped/stretched data, it would save a few steps and be really convenient. However, my guess is that there is a reason - it may put too much strain on the CPU to process the warping algorithms as well as pitch, etc who knows. I can live with the workaround, it's pretty damn painless and simple.

I would recommend going and searching the feature requests, I bet someone has brought this up and maybe the Abe-folk have responded. If not, start a thread and I bet people will agree and voice how great this is.

[McQ714]

I can live with the workaround, it's pretty damn painless and simple.

But then, what if you wanted to change the tempo again? Do the entire process again, and again, and again. That's not painless and simple. And suppose you wanted to use those samples in session view and you needed each slice to be the tempo-synced as you change the tempo for the entire project. Might as well just use recycle to rex the whole file instead of slicing to midi...right? That's not painless and simple either!!! There's got to be an easier way to do this. And if there isn't, then there definitely should be one in the works. When an audio clip gets sliced, Live should determine how to warp the new clips from the original audio clip to keep the integrity of the original warping intact or at least give us that option. Does that make sense?

[contakt321]

I can live with the workaround, it's pretty damn painless and simple.

But then, what if you wanted to change the tempo again? Do the entire process again, and again, and again. That's not painless and simple. And suppose you wanted to use those samples in session view and you needed each slice to be the tempo-synced as you change the tempo for the entire project. Might as well just use recycle to rex the whole file instead of slicing to midi...right? That's not painless and simple either!!! There's got to be an easier way to do this. And if there isn't, then there definitely should be one in the works. When an audio clip gets sliced, Live should determine how to warp the new clips from the original audio clip to keep the integrity of the original warping intact or at least give us that option. Does that make sense?

Changing tempos several times in a track would be more annoying but you could just consolidate at the different tempo. Because the slices would be in the same order you could just drag the midi clip to the new Drum Rack for the new tempo. This wouldn't be a problem is session view, drag the track to arrange, consolidate, then drag back to session Annoying I agree, but that would work.

Changing the tempo w/o this or frequently within a song wouldn't work though, and I agree it's frustrating.

I agree with the request and the frustration, the request would make sense and is very logical, in fact when I realized Live didn't do this I was pretty surprised because keeping the warped data would intuitively (to me at least) make more sense.

If someone starts this thread as a feature request please link back here so everyone who has commented in this thread can post a comment to demonstrate how many folks would benefit from this capability.

[majestics]

contakt321,

Would you mind posting the feature request as you have worded this problem much better than I have.

Another nice thing would be a choice to view the Waveforms as notes instead of those midi block notes.
Something that looks like this would be cool.

[McQ714]

Changing tempos several times in a track would be more annoying but you could just consolidate at the different tempo. Because the slices would be in the same order you could just drag the midi clip to the new Drum Rack for the new tempo. This wouldn't be a problem is session view, drag the track to arrange, consolidate, then drag back to session Annoying I agree, but that would work.

Changing the tempo w/o this or frequently within a song wouldn't work though, and I agree it's frustrating.

I agree with the request and the frustration, the request would make sense and is very logical, in fact when I realized Live didn't do this I was pretty surprised because keeping the warped data would intuitively (to me at least) make more sense.

And not necessarily just for changing tempo within the track but if i wanted to save the midi slices for use in another project or throwing in as an audio sample in a DJ set. And a little off topic here... I realize that Live is far more advanced than a DJing software, but i would really like to be able to have more control of each individual clip playing as you do with the tracks in a DJing software, i.e. nudging clips and the ability to turn off the master tempo and have each track run at it's own tempo. More control is all I'm asking for and I highly doubt M4L is going to provide that. Besides, I'm not a programmer and don't think I'll be up for dicking around for hours on end with M4L if I do happen to get it. Maybe Ableton should branch out to DJ-specific software. Built around the basics of Live but stripped down to the necessities for DJing so that the software isn't bloated and will run flawlessly even on less powerful laptops. Internal recording for loops. but no need for external recording. Show us what the partnership with Serato was for. You can't tell me that Abes couldn't figure out time coded vinyl?!? that partnership must be for something more!!!

[contakt321]

I just created a thread - please post your comments here:

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=110573

Let me know if what I wrote isn't clear or is missing anything.

[cmreal04]

i like the fact that it does this, as you can use the warp markers as reference points to slice the sample exactly as you want it. i don't see it as that big a deal to resample to get a warped version to then slice exactly as i want. in this case they are not really warp markers at all, just start points for each slice. i guess it would be cool to have one more choice in the slice dialog box; to "slice as warped" or some shit...

Slice as warped...YES

CM

[marra]

Bump in solidarity with Ability to warp audio in Simpler / Sampler and Drum Racks Utilizing Warp/Time Stretch

[paulmaddox]

For me, I usually use slice-to-midi when I want to make a new pattern from (for example) some sampled drums. I would never want Ableton to warp first, then slice, as it's adding an unnecessary stage of timestretching which degrades the quality.

I can see the cases where you'd want to (eg. if the slices you're making are more than a single hit, so timing within each slice is important), but I presume Ableton thought this would be the less common case, so the extra step of consolidating first if you want to do this seems sensible to me.

[Pitch Black]

To consolidate a clip you drag it into the arrangement and ht command J. This makes a new audio file integrating all the current settings and FX chain into the audio...

Not true, actually. Consolidate makes a new audio file, yes, but does nothing with any effects on the channel. It works at the audio file level only and leaves the effects in place on the channel as prior to Consolidating. It doesn't print the effects to the consolidated clip.