Lemur Controller Feedback Please

Clearscreen · Post by **Clearscreen** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 3:52 am

wireless network

just had a play with reaktor to try and suss out what osc is all about. it seems it's basically network addresses! this wireless controller stuff robtronik mentioned would be freaking great!
Abes - IMPLEMENT OSC!!

LOFA · Post by **LOFA** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 5:47 am

could you please explain to a layman what the advantages of OSC over midi, aside from Live compatability? Thanks!

Clearscreen · Post by **Clearscreen** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:46 am

from what i've read there are huge advantages in terms of latency and data throughput. what this means is because your using a 10/100 network connection the bandwidth is enormous compared to a standard midi cable, and it can go a lot further in less time without choking on itself....
and be wireless....

the wireless stuff will become more important. for example you could send an OSC sync signal using wifi cross platform (ie pc to mac)today, whereas at the moment theres very few cross platform midi sync solutions (i can only think of one). similarly, wireless controllers mean less cables to trip over etc. as well as potentially a closer interaction with your audience.

the other major improvement is that it is 32-bit as opposed to 7/14-bit as midi is now. this means more accurate/sensitive controllers, instead of 128 steps per cc.

theres more info here:
http://www.cnmat.berkeley.edu/OpenSoundControl/

and a simple (mac only) OSC to midi convertor i found here (if anyone happens to need one):
http://www.mat.ucsb.edu/%7Ec.ramakr/illposed/occam.html

robtronik · Post by **robtronik** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:54 pm

I recieved a direct response to my questions in my email from Jazzmutant because of this thread. I'm just waiting for a response to make sure that I can post the information here .... Nothing controversial, just want to make sure that it's cool. Mostly it is what we suspected above: Edit the XML file for now (which is the surest way to get the parameters in), or wait until they add the "Add MIDI" button to put new midi assignments in...

I gotta say, I am very impressed with both Cycling74 and Jazzmutant. Probably order this thing next week. I've sold my Xone:92, my Motu828MKII, and (COUGH, COUGH, can you freaking believe it) two turntables.... the agony... er, sort of...

rob.

FORMAT · Post by **FORMAT** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:06 pm

Anyone got a link for Lemur?

kronk · Post by **kronk** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:34 pm

Anyone got a link for Lemur?

try

http://www.jazzmutant.com

or their us distributor

http://www.cycling74.com/products/lemur.html

Clearscreen · Post by **Clearscreen** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:13 am

has anyone figured out how to assign the midi port the jazzeditor uses to output? in the manual it says it uses the first available, but can be changed in the sound properties page of the configuration panel - does that panel exist?

robtronik · Post by **robtronik** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:41 pm

Here is the additional info given to me by both Jazzmutant and Cycling74. One of them addresses your question about the MIDI Port addressing as well.

------------------------------

>Thank you so much for the personal response. This is what I
>suspected (the editing the XML file is probably the best
>way to set up the parameters). It seems pretty clear in the
>sample document, so I may just plunk down and get one of
>these these week and continue to work on it. I would be
>happy to provide you guys feedback as well assuming you
>need anymore than you may already be recieving.
>>

>
>
>
>>Hello Rob,
>>
>>A friend of mine pointed me toward your post on ableton
>>forum. Your
>>remarks about our pet Lemur sound pretty relevant and
>>interesting.
>>Therefore, although the email you quoted has been
>>initialy sent to our
>>friends at cycling74, I couldn't help replying it by
>>myself. So, here is
>>the answers to your couple of questions :
>>
>> 1) after setting up my preferred interface windows in
>>the
>> JazzEditor application, I still do not understand how
>>to:
>> a) create additional MIDI assignments beyond the 39 or
>>so
>> that are already listed in the application. Looking at
>>the
>> Traktor example it is clear that additional MIDI
>> assignments were created to facilitate the extra
>>controls.
>> Was this done in the Variable area? And if so...
>>
>>A : Nowadays, there is 3 different ways to do that.
>>method 1 : use a text editor and modify the XML file by
>>hand (copy and
>>paste existing MIDI messages).
>>method 2 : Edit the 40 existing midi messages (you can
>>change their
>>name so that it fits the parameter you want to control
>>). Save your
>>interface and open it again : 40 new MIDI messages has
>>been
>>automatically created again.
>>method 3 : Be patient and wait we'll have added a "new
>>Midi Message"
>>button to JazzEditor!
>>
>>
>> b) how do you assign the MIDI assignment to a particular
>> object? Do you use the name of the object as a variable
>> parameter and then the software links the two?
>>
>>A : you can use any existing variables (whether local or
>>global). For
>>instance, you can assign the value of a fader called
>>'Bob' to a CC by
>>typing 'Bob.x*128' in the 'value' field. If you want to
>>change on the
>>fly the control number Bob is supposed to be assigned
>>to, just create
>>another fader called 'Jim' and type the expression
>>'Jim.x*128' into the
>>'control' field. By this way, if 'Jim' is equal to 0.5,
>>then Bob will
>>control CC# 64, while if 'Jim.x=1', Bob will control CC#
>> 127.
>>
>>We're preparing a bunch of cool examples using different
>>applications
>>(Live, reason, absynth...) that will help you to
>>understand the OSC to
>>Midi Mapping.
>>
>> 2) Don't know if you can answer this one, because it is
>> application specific, but my guess is that you can use
>>the
>> MIDI learn command found in many applications like Live,
>> Reason, or Traktor to latch a particular object to a
>> function in the host application. Is this how it is
>>done?
>>
>>
>>A: I think I can reply this question. As you might have
>>noticed, for any
>>messages (Midi or OSC), you can decide wether or not
>>it's sent out by
>>clicking the corresponding check box. To learn a
>>JazzEditor MIDI message
>>to Live, just check its sent box and ensure that all
>>other MIDI messages
>>are unchecked. Then move the corresponding object and
>>it's ready.

From Cycling74:

---------------------------------------------------

Hi Robert,
Thanks for your email. The JazzEditor doesn't seem to have this
function yet, but new MIDI objects can be added by opening the xml file in a
text editor and copy/pasting the MIDI lines, renaming the "name="
value to something unique. The MIDI features are still in development at
JazzMutant, so expect to see a more convenient method in the near
future. I am currently working on implementing Lemur MIDI controls in Live,
and it appears to be pretty straightforward so far. I'm hoping to have
more info on this soon. MIDI is assigned by giving the name of an
object parameter as the value (objectname.x for example).

-----------------------------------------------

Selling some extra gear right now and should be able to purchase this thing next week. I'll try to work through the issues and post to this thread as I find out new things, etc.

rob.

robtronik · Post by **robtronik** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:42 pm

Here is the part about the midi port:

ps : someone else is asking a question about the MIDI default port of
the 'sound properties'. Actually, we're talking about the Win XP
configuration panel's sound properties. For some reasons, it can happen
that Win XP doesn't set LoopBe virtual port as its default MIDI port.
In such a case, the user has to change this setting by himself.

Clearscreen · Post by **Clearscreen** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:46 am

thanks for the info rob. i'm trying to figure out ways to save the money quicker myself! maybe i'll have to sell something.... DOH!
update us if you find out anymore/take delivery

smartabletonuser · Post by **smartabletonuser** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:20 am

this seems like the first legthy discussion of this controller, one that has recieved so much hype for the past few months. the lemur is f^cking cool though. much respect to the guys at jazzmutant.

i personally feel that it isn't worth the purchase at the current time. In a year you won't even be able to sell it for very much as a newer version (or improved tablet pc's for 1/2 the price) will replace it.

I'm currently having this guy at API build a custom controller for me. It's basically 4 switches with 2 pots/switch and eight clip triggers. It's very simple. The switches will have lights indicating if a plug-in is on/off. Then the 2 knobs will allow parameter tweeking. I'm combining this functionality with a faderfox to select tracks.

I'll post more details when it's finished, probably in a few weeks.

Michael-SW · Post by **Michael-SW** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 6:30 am

The Lemur is very cool, but the price - ouch!

I've been thinking on how you could do your own poor mans Lemur from a ordinary touchscreen and some Synthedit software. See this thread:

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25966

Sure, the Lemur is multi touch but I think I can live without that if I can get away with USD 200 (or even less) instead of USD 2500...

Clearscreen · Post by **Clearscreen** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 6:42 am

The Lemur is very cool, but the price - ouch!

thats fair enough, and i'm interested to see what you come up with.
i still think theres more to the lemur than just a 'multi touch' screen. when you dig into the programming software it's seems capable of doing a bit more than just controlling a couple of synths or triggering clips. i'm very interested to see how it can be programmed to perform other functions at this point.
if i was loaded i'd look into getting one now, but as i'm not i'm happy to wait and see how things pan out for a bit.

nuperspective · Post by **nuperspective** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 6:44 am

theres a review of the unit in this month future music. its given a good review but you have to be able to program your own mathematical logs and formulas to get the best out of it. its very very complex. it doesnt come with any presets to get you started.

computo · Post by **computo** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 6:49 am

But would you expect it to?

Its really not that hard, and once you learn a small bit, you've learned a lot.

Its more about the principles involved.

The reason its so expensive is BECAUSE its the first device to really allow for no presets, even of the physical aspects.

Theres no other device that comes without a GUI!!!