Best laptop for Music production: very curious - Macbook?

[deva]

That's apples to oranges. A company like IBM has a totally different support and cost structure than even the most professional music producer. Besides I'm sure they lease their laptops anyways.

5% of their Mac users vs 40% of their PC users (using their help desk) is exactly pertinent to the value added by ease of use (and a huge % difference).

I work with lots of people and have observed the same thing. PC owners spend more time futzing with their machines for one reason or another. I'm happy to pay more for that. It's fine if someone else isn't. There are different choices for different peoples needs, interests and sensibilities.

I also find significant value in the software Apple includes. The iWork suite is included for free. For many people, that is sufficient and so there is no need to buy Office. There is the cost of Office saved.

Logic is $200... it is roughly an extra $300 to buy an equivalent on the PC (say Cubase).
Final Cut Pro is another example. Motion is an exceptional motion graphics software that has no PC equivalent. It's a helluva lot cheaper than After Effects.

Strictly from a financial standpoint, the Adobe subscription model aint so terrible but it does cost more if like me, you were used to only upgrading every second or third major update. That one mainly rubs me wrong personally. I refuse to pay a $50 monthly fee to Adobe. So I am dropping my use of Adobe software though still using Lightroom which is thankfully still subscription free. Apple is currently a better platform for not using Adobe. There are Final Cut and Motion, the new (mac only) Affinity apps Photo and Designer and an In-Design equivalent on the way. Those apps total $450 which is 9 months of Adobe and after 2 years, would be $450 vs $1200.

If the lack of user configurable/replaceable parts is a showstopper for you, then it is. That's fine. But that is something of a personal pet peeve just like the Adobe subscription model is for me. Just cause I refuse to pay Adobe per month, does not make any professional who decides to do so less professional or deluded about their costs. There is nothing wrong with you being annoyed about Apple's approach and choices, but financially speaking those things are relatively trivial.

[deva]

Well I would still at least want an i7 quad core with 16 gig of RAM and an 500gig SSD. And as it stands Apples MBP is now about a 1000€ more for this package than it was in the times of the 2012 MBP(admittedly refurbished) with self-upgraded RAM and SSD.
I would call that difference quite significant.

Hey, you got a great laptop that will serve you well for some years to come. By the time you need a new one, maybe Apple will have a new model that allows you to add ram/hd/battery

[yur2die4]

Keep in mind also that a lot of 13 and 15 inch options, especially the thin ones, are very powerful 'for their size'.

There is a pretty strong trend lately to use the i7's that are of the ultramobile (power-saving) variety instead of what was a standard mobile processor. Manufacturers know that i7 and i5 along with speed are the one thing people usually look for in a performance laptop. And in most cases, these processors Can handle an attractive amount of tracks and processing, but at the same time aren't fully a match for the next step up.

Options with regular mobile processors are getting harder and harder to find, and I feel also that companies are being more cryptic about exactly what kind of processor you are getting for your form-factor.

So something like a surface book and 13" MacBook are usually somewhat powerful for their size, and can get a lot done, but wouldn't quite compete in heavier situations the way a 17" or 15" with a normal mobile i7 would.

Then it comes down to deciding if you only need a certain amount of power for 'on the go' and the rest for your desktop at home, or if this laptop purchase is intended to handle everything imaginable, as your Only option.

I'd be open to hear more input on this topic of the processor trends because I feel if it is the case, it's a little frustrating. If I'm wrong, it would was my mind a bit

[TomViolenz]

Well I would still at least want an i7 quad core with 16 gig of RAM and an 500gig SSD. And as it stands Apples MBP is now about a 1000€ more for this package than it was in the times of the 2012 MBP(admittedly refurbished) with self-upgraded RAM and SSD.
I would call that difference quite significant.

Hey, you got a great laptop that will serve you well for some years to come. By the time you need a new one, maybe Apple will have a new model that allows you to add ram/hd/battery

That's certainly true and I enjoy it quite a bit, but I don't share your hope regarding a course reversal on Apples part.

[login]

I also find significant value in the software Apple includes. The iWork suite is included for free. For many people, that is sufficient and so there is no need to buy Office. There is the cost of Office saved.

jajajajajajajaja

[deva]

Well I would still at least want an i7 quad core with 16 gig of RAM and an 500gig SSD. And as it stands Apples MBP is now about a 1000€ more for this package than it was in the times of the 2012 MBP(admittedly refurbished) with self-upgraded RAM and SSD.
I would call that difference quite significant.

Hey, you got a great laptop that will serve you well for some years to come. By the time you need a new one, maybe Apple will have a new model that allows you to add ram/hd/battery

That's certainly true and I enjoy it quite a bit, but I don't share your hope regarding a course reversal on Apples part.

I have no hope in that regard... cause I really don't care if they did that or not. Apple prioritized thinner, lighter and stronger over user configurability. I'd guess most people agree with that choice.

[deva]

Keep in mind also that a lot of 13 and 15 inch options, especially the thin ones, are very powerful 'for their size'.

There is a pretty strong trend lately to use the i7's that are of the ultramobile (power-saving) variety instead of what was a standard mobile processor. Manufacturers know that i7 and i5 along with speed are the one thing people usually look for in a performance laptop. And in most cases, these processors Can handle an attractive amount of tracks and processing, but at the same time aren't fully a match for the next step up.

Options with regular mobile processors are getting harder and harder to find, and I feel also that companies are being more cryptic about exactly what kind of processor you are getting for your form-factor.

So something like a surface book and 13" MacBook are usually somewhat powerful for their size, and can get a lot done, but wouldn't quite compete in heavier situations the way a 17" or 15" with a normal mobile i7 would.

Then it comes down to deciding if you only need a certain amount of power for 'on the go' and the rest for your desktop at home, or if this laptop purchase is intended to handle everything imaginable, as your Only option.

I'd be open to hear more input on this topic of the processor trends because I feel if it is the case, it's a little frustrating. If I'm wrong, it would was my mind a bit

On the surface webpage, they have almost no info about the CPU's they are using.

I read in a couple places that the high end Surface Book ($2700) is not quad core. The Microsoft site has no mention either way which makes me think it isn't quad core or they would mention that. CPU speed is also not mentioned. It feels odd... like something a bit sneaky is going on.

[TomViolenz]

I have no hope in that regard... cause I really don't care if they did that or not. Apple prioritized thinner, lighter and stronger over user configurability. I'd guess most people agree with that choice.

Then why did you just write this:

By the time you need a new one, maybe Apple will have a new model that allows you to add ram/hd/battery

Taking any chance you get to be a condescending prick or what?!

[deva]

I have no hope in that regard... cause I really don't care if they did that or not. Apple prioritized thinner, lighter and stronger over user configurability. I'd guess most people agree with that choice.

Then why did you just write this:

By the time you need a new one, maybe Apple will have a new model that allows you to add ram/hd/battery

Taking any chance you get to be a condescending prick or what?!

huh?

That was a friendly comment that the future is unknown. You have a fine machine, have no need of a replacement so you have no current issue. We simply do not know what will be the case when the time comes that you need a new one.

When Apple first announced that there was no longer user configurability, I was also put off by that... but then I thought about my 2 previous MBP's and realized I had never done any upgrading anyway. So I let it go. My new MBP has 16GB Ram and a 1TB SSD which is shockingly fast. It wakes up from sleep in like 2 seconds. Even if I have some apps running, when I restart, it is only like 20 seconds until it is all ready to go again. Most apps launch within a second or 2. The speed and agility are impressive. I'm gonna be happy with this machine as is for a long time. By the time I need a new machine, Apple could make choices I don't like. well... so it goes.

[Tarekith]

There's no need to resort to name calling, keep it civil.

[Machinesworking]

There's no need to resort to name calling, keep it civil.

Werd.

IMO there are plenty of reasons to get a retina mbp and plenty of reasons to get a slate.
In both cases getting the fastest CPU you can is 100% the smartest thing you can do.

I've run out of RAM on only one project in over 15 years now, and that was an orchestral piece on my desktop when I had 8GB, which begs the question as to why you would use a laptop or Live for orchestral work?

SSDs will fill up, getting an external SSD for sample libraries and older songs is pretty much going to be a thing even if you get a terabyte drive.

So what was the main point again? CPU is absolutely the main concern and has never been upgradable in laptops.

my 15" Retina mbp from 2012 is still in the top performers, and I would never get a 13" anything and talk about performance.

[H20nly]

I've noticed, at least on Windows PCs, that HDMI ports are not common but instead they have Display ports... which is like HDMI minus the audio.

DisplayPort is actually a superior connection to HDMI, with much higher bandwidth/resolutions possible. it can also carry audio. DisplayPort -> HDMI adaptors and cables are cheap and readily available...

Yeah, I've seen the adapters and they work well, in my experience. But I didn't realize they were cable of audio too. I guess I assumed Display Port was just next after DVI.

Still, I've noticed a lot of computers going that route.

[Angstrom]

On the surface webpage, they have almost no info about the CPU's they are using.

I read in a couple places that the high end Surface Book ($2700) is not quad core. The Microsoft site has no mention either way which makes me think it isn't quad core or they would mention that. CPU speed is also not mentioned. It feels odd... like something a bit sneaky is going on.

They are dualcore, Core i7-6650U

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2989906/ ... atter.html

[login]

Dual core and low voltage, so for music production I wouldn't get them, specially for the price.

MBP 15" is still a good option. Razer laptops might be the windows alternative and they are as expensive as Apple, and you loose the core audio drivers.

I think that if the MBP 15" came with 512 SSD it would be great value.

[Angstrom]

I'm mainly a PC user because I'm chained to one location most of the time, but if I actually needed a laptop I'd very likely just go for the top of the line macbook pro. It's expensive, doesn't upgrade well etc. etc. etc. - but they work reliably, are very well constructed and they keep their value for resale very well.

If anyone asks me how you upgrade some component in a macbook I tell them you put a "for sale" ad out and then just buy this years model. The difference in sale/purchase price is probably the price you'd pay for that memory/processor upgrade you wanted.

It's a weird economy they have going on there, but life is weird. Just go with it.

Any time I've said "Ah, instead of this overpriced Macbookpro I can get a 200GHZ Blarptech PRO3 with 400 Teragigabyte harddrive and UberNet" ... 3 years later I have a pile of outmoded junk with a broken hinge and a resale value of £4.10 . My bargain hunting and cost cutting has successfully cost me more than £10k over the years.

The downside of Apple products is the fanboys and their jizzy hands and weird eyes.