Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
Machinesworking
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Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Post by Machinesworking » Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:35 am

keyman_sam wrote:Live has been struggling to play a moderate sized project (60 tracks) in my i7 2600K/20GB ram DAW with RME Babyface, which used to run 120+ tracks in Reaper without breaking a sweat at 256 samples. It is notable that this is my first serious project in Live after moving away from Reaper. This project literally has 3 VSTis - 1 omnisphere, 1 Kontakt, 1 EW Play. The rest are audio effects on audio tracks and sends, mostly Live's effects.
Also I've moved the project to a fresh 64-GB SSD to remove disk streaming concerns.

With all the stuttering I tried turning off Multicore support and lo-and-behold it actually got rid of a lot of the audio glitches. THe CPU now runs at 65-70% as opposed to 45% but the performance seems noticeably improved.

What should I gather from this? Is Ableton poorly optimized for multi-core support? Any solution I can try? I've played way bigger projects in Reaper without any glitches, so it can't be the computer. In fact as far as I can remember this is the first time I'm experiencing performance related problems in this computer. HELP!!
First off Reaper is one of the leanest DAWs in terms of CPU, and Live is one the the most pig like. That you're getting half what you got in Reaper is no surprise to me, in about 08 I was getting 60% in Live of what I could in Logic. Digital Performer now gets about twice as many tracks as Live routinely.

Live and most DAWs run CPUs on a per track basis, i.e. only a single core is used per track. People have mentioned this, but it's worth mentioning again. Even distribution of FX across tracks does increase track count etc. For instance with my 8 core Xeon if I run a few heavy tracks it hits 80% quickly, but dozens make only a slight dent in that. <--That says multi core is there, but single track management is mediocre.

fishmonkey
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Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Post by fishmonkey » Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:55 am

redacted...

keyman_sam
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Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Post by keyman_sam » Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:00 pm

Machinesworking wrote:
keyman_sam wrote:Live has been struggling to play a moderate sized project (60 tracks) in my i7 2600K/20GB ram DAW with RME Babyface, which used to run 120+ tracks in Reaper without breaking a sweat at 256 samples. It is notable that this is my first serious project in Live after moving away from Reaper. This project literally has 3 VSTis - 1 omnisphere, 1 Kontakt, 1 EW Play. The rest are audio effects on audio tracks and sends, mostly Live's effects.
Also I've moved the project to a fresh 64-GB SSD to remove disk streaming concerns.

With all the stuttering I tried turning off Multicore support and lo-and-behold it actually got rid of a lot of the audio glitches. THe CPU now runs at 65-70% as opposed to 45% but the performance seems noticeably improved.

What should I gather from this? Is Ableton poorly optimized for multi-core support? Any solution I can try? I've played way bigger projects in Reaper without any glitches, so it can't be the computer. In fact as far as I can remember this is the first time I'm experiencing performance related problems in this computer. HELP!!
First off Reaper is one of the leanest DAWs in terms of CPU, and Live is one the the most pig like. That you're getting half what you got in Reaper is no surprise to me, in about 08 I was getting 60% in Live of what I could in Logic. Digital Performer now gets about twice as many tracks as Live routinely.

Live and most DAWs run CPUs on a per track basis, i.e. only a single core is used per track. People have mentioned this, but it's worth mentioning again. Even distribution of FX across tracks does increase track count etc. For instance with my 8 core Xeon if I run a few heavy tracks it hits 80% quickly, but dozens make only a slight dent in that. <--That says multi core is there, but single track management is mediocre.

That truly sucks as Live is a wonderful DAW IF it works and WHEN it works.

This whole experience has had me thinking about moving back to Reaper (or maybe Cubase), grudgingly. On one hand I LOVE live's simplicity, the browser, its 'simpler' (no pun),warping, the M4L effects, the resampling track, etc. On the other hand if Live can't keep up with the project, and keeps crashing, how does anyone get any work done? :roll:

Machinesworking
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Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Post by Machinesworking » Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:16 am

keyman_sam wrote: That truly sucks as Live is a wonderful DAW IF it works and WHEN it works.

This whole experience has had me thinking about moving back to Reaper (or maybe Cubase), grudgingly. On one hand I LOVE live's simplicity, the browser, its 'simpler' (no pun),warping, the M4L effects, the resampling track, etc. On the other hand if Live can't keep up with the project, and keeps crashing, how does anyone get any work done? :roll:
Straight answer, I use it until I don't need to anymore. So if I start a song on Live and it gets huge, generally at that point I'm not really using Live's strong points, new tracks being added aren't using the warp engine etc. so I switch to Digital Performer, in the past it was Live and Logic for me.

I like Live a lot, but I think dinosaur DAWs have big advantages when it comes to mix down and micro editing etc. So when a song is fleshed out I'll inevitably transfer it to DP9 when the CPU is hurting. Any song that doesn't get hurt by the CPU will be finished in Live then imported into DP9 as stems for final mixing etc.

Plus, Lives behavior as far as tracks is concerned is universal pretty much, DP and Logic will sometimes get bogged if you overload a single track. Makes sense, think of every one of your processors as running more or less independently, so a single track can make it seem like all your CPU is gone when it's just a single CPU glitching. Some developers have found ways around this, U-He has a few plug ins that offload to other CPUs regardless of the DAWs one track = one CPU rule. Who knows why DAW developers haven't done what U-He does? but for the most part they don't. Even Reaper can be odd that way, when I first ran tests on it, it behaved way worse than other DAWs, tweaking something and going back to the test and Reaper skunked the other DAWs...

pencilrocket
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Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Post by pencilrocket » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:40 am

We need Eco mode for arrangement view.... Even $100 Vst instrument has this... :x

SvenH
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Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Post by SvenH » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:36 pm

I need Live for its Simpler and great warp modes! Had it not been for those features I would not bother leaving Studio One.

Live is sooooo much CPU hungrier than Studio One and switching on multicore support in Live makes things much worse, so I always leave it off. :(

/Sven

Stromkraft
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Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:50 pm

SvenH wrote: switching on multicore support in Live makes things much worse, so I always leave it off. :(
This is certainly not normal. What are the circumstances in the amount of tracks and the instruments in use? How many cores in what CPU? What OS? What audio interface and what driver version? What buffer settings?

If I turn off multicore all that happens is that the Live CPU meter quadruples as everything now runs on one core (at least that's the only explanation I can find) in my quadcore i7. How can that be what you want? Of course, the other cores get free for background apps. But aren't we making music?

I think you could instead attempt to toggle multi-core in your plug-in instruments, if they have such a setting, and get better results.
Make some music!

SvenH
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Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Post by SvenH » Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:03 am

Today, I figured out something that made a huge difference in performance! I changed Windows power plan from "Balanced" to "High performance". After changing this settings it's like having a new computer! :D I wish I had figured this out a lot earlier! :oops:

My excuse though for not checking these settings earlier is that Studio One and Reason seems to do well with my old settings (could it be that they override the Windows settings?), so I assumed something was wrong with Live.

Thanks to all of you who have helped in this thread!

tintala
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Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Post by tintala » Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:22 pm

Im running i7 core 2.4 ghz, 32 gb, devils canyon processor, in high performance mode, I can only run 35 tracks and Live gets bogged, my i5 did alot better from 5 yrs ago. Im in multicore support ... its painfully slow now days.

Stromkraft
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Re: Live v9.5 performs better WITHOUT Multi-core support!!

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:39 pm

tintala wrote:Im running i7 core 2.4 ghz, 32 gb, devils canyon processor, in high performance mode, I can only run 35 tracks and Live gets bogged, my i5 did alot better from 5 yrs ago. Im in multicore support ... its painfully slow now days.
That doesn't really say anything as what is actually on those tracks is what counts. Maybe you ask more from your machine now than back then?
Make some music!

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