Ableton Live 9 and Machine 2

[Machinesworking]

In a way I partially blame the resurgence of groove boxes for NI’s gaping shortcomings in DAW integration and I’m sure it’s a lot easier for them to code it as a groove box. But as they were primarily a DAW plugin developer before I almost find it inexcusable that they haven’t addressed these walls people are hitting 2 minutes after they try to use it as a plugin, especially as long as it’s been out.

IMO anyway NI have always fallen short in the UI department, it's why Ableton probably go a little to far in the other direction making everything as simple as possible (pre Max anyway). I expected all the shortcomings of Maschine going in to it, having been on the NI tit since Komplete 2.

I don't think NI have made up their mind as to whether they want Maschine to be a DAW or a plug in, it's in the same boat as Live 4 or Reason was. Brings up the whole question for the billionth time as to why it doesn't rewire, and why most rewire DAWs can't host VSTs....

[beats me]

I don't think NI have made up their mind as to whether they want Maschine to be a DAW or a plug in

And in that hesitation have made it kind of suck at being either. If nothing else it’s the best groove box out there (that requires a computer)

So what’s to love? The library and quick and easy mapping to everything NI within the box. Just don’t try to leave the box or compose an intricate song.

[yur2die4]

In Maschine Groups, you can set the group to receive notes to trigger 'each' pad instead of each pad requiring an entire channel.

The biggest challenge with Maschine is that people can't decide if they want to arrange in Maschine or in their daw. So they try to do both, which is a lot like trying to pass a bill in congress.

Same goes for audio. They want to use audio of Maschine, and they want to use audio of Live, and they want them to go back and forth.

So what mostly has to happen is, there must be a compromise. A person can use the regular tools Live offers, and essentially pass up their nifty hardware/software combo entirely knowing that it'll be a pain in their side down the road, or they can try to do Most of the work in Maschine, and then kinda finish it off in Live (not try to do More in Live after already committing to Maschine).

Maschine still has its place in a lot of very cool ways. It has some crazy live improvisation possibilities. It is almost easier to choose loaded instruments from Maschine (just tap a pad, and you can play the notes from your keyboard), and although you have to deal with default clip lengths, the 'always playing' groovebox mentality makes it extremely easy and solid to record patterns into it. Plus I like how easily I can quantize by 100 or 50% haha.

But once you get to trying to intermesh them, it's always compromises and manual diving. I suggest just letting Maschine reside in its own channel, it's own little world, not interacting with Live. If you make that decision first and foremost, you can save yourself the future agony and time-waste.

[Stromkraft]

But once you get to trying to intermesh them, it's always compromises and manual diving. I suggest just letting Maschine reside in its own channel, it's own little world, not interacting with Live. If you make that decision first and foremost, you can save yourself the future agony and time-waste.

Thanks for sharing. I suppose much if this is behind why I never was swayed to get Maschine for myself. It would seem I have to get my head around overcoming some of these limitations anyway, so I can cooperate better with people using it.

I suppose one way to look at it is as just another specific hardware drum machine, because of the limitations there are. Some such hardware products would be easier to integrate perhaps, but Drum Machines often are their own little worlds pretty much. Maybe the scenes thing is workable or maybe I need to get hacking to find the middle-ground needed.

[Theo Void]

I do love Maschine and basically use it as a (ridiculously expensive) sketch pad. I play guitar and consider myself a "musician" so I value the ability to play an instrument. That's why I love Maschine so much! It feels like an instrument. It's something that I get better at the more I practice. Thsts also why I've always loved groove boxes and drum machines and other hardware. Stand alone is good! I'd give ANYTHING for a stand-alone MASCHINE!!!

Anyway, I've been trying to integrate Masxhine w/ Live forever! There's just no easy solution. It's always a convoluted retarded nightmare. I guess one can route sounds and groups and I've tried that but it always winds up being a huge mess. Too much shit to remember and it takes 16 tracks in Live for one group in Maschine. Maschine has in limited groups. It gets un ruly very quickly. I've tried some other techniques too but it's never good and always fucks up my workflow rather than enhance it.

I'm primarily an Ableton Live user and I wish I could just abandon Maschine altogether but I just can't!! Lol. I do love it for what it is. The sounds are great, the controller/software combo is amazing. I love controlling EVERYTHING from the controller. Not to mention the KOMPLETE integration. It's awesome!!! Plus I've put in tons of time and effort and have gotten really good at it. It's a joy to use. So much fun. I just WISH more than anything it was easier to sequence and finish tracks. They need to either make it a DAW or somehow make it easier to use with a DAW. I mean, you can't even sync Maschine w/ Traktor ffs!!!

As of now I write in Maschine because it's so much more inspiring because it's fun to play like a limitless instrument that contains ANY sound on the planet!!! Then I drag n drop the audio into Live for everything else. !! I'll keep both applications open and will often jump back into Madchine to grab more sounds and to create loops and parts to add to the song in Live. I'm kinda content with this workflow but if I could use Maschine as a vst in a way that worked I'd be super happy!!!!!
Any suggestions???

[beats me]

In Maschine Groups, you can set the group to receive notes to trigger 'each' pad instead of each pad requiring an entire channel.

Noted. I’m going to have to look in the group settings. Silly me thought that would be in the global options or preferences.

It has some crazy live improvisation possibilities.

Which you can't record as a song in Maschine.

[Theo Void]

I also got a KOMPLETE KONTROL S49. As much as I like it, it really just adds another layer of bullshit to everything. Plus it's redundant if you have Maschine. I think I'll probably sell it. NI marketing gets me every time I swear.
Anyway, does ANYONE out there have an elegant or at least usable Maschine/LIVE workflow ?

[Machinesworking]

but if I could use Maschine as a vst in a way that worked I'd be super happy!!!!!
Any suggestions???

You can, it's very possible to fire off Scenes in Maschine that are then controlled by Live. This is a best of both worlds situation. Maschine creates the patterns and scenes, Live controls the arrangement of said patterns and scenes. It is only a hassle to initially set up, after that it's seamless.

[Machinesworking]

It has some crazy live improvisation possibilities.

Which you can't record as a song in Maschine.

You can, at least with Scenes, just not as easy in Logic. It's dead easy in Live.
Here's a quick and dirty that explains it nicely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZHADi8 ... e=youtu.be

[beats me]

It has some crazy live improvisation possibilities.

Which you can't record as a song in Maschine.

You can, at least with Scenes, just not as easy in Logic. It's dead easy in Live.
Here's a quick and dirty that explains it nicely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZHADi8 ... e=youtu.be

I'm saying without needing a DAW and beyond just changing scenes. Let's say in Maschine standalone you are improvising over a 1 bar loop that plays 8 times and throughout those 8 times you are automating parameters with knobs. Is there any way to record that 8 bar performance (and beyond) within Maschine? No, there is not. All you are going to get is the automation you played on the last bar looping over and over. It's like if Live didn't have an arrangement view and all you get is auto follow actions on scenes.

[Theo Void]

That's a cool performance technique but it doesn't really address the problems I have. My problem is the limitations of the arrangement when making tracks. Like the auto doubling of bars. I hate that. I wish the automation was lanes that are drawn instead of the lines at the bottom. That's just two minor issues. It's the arranger altogether. Needs to be more linear.

I hate how the transport stops working when used in a DAW. I wish I could easily arrange audio and midi in the Live arrangement window while all the sounds are coming from Maschine. But the problem is that every MIDI note and control from Maschine would have to be linked to Ableton Live.

[beats me]

I will give Maschine another positive point. In my (mostly failed) attempt to use it as a standard drum machine in Logic it was cool to work on editing the sample while the track was playing just using the controller and screens on Maschine Studio without looking at the screen clutter on the computer. Really puts you in that zone. Sounds like Push 2 has that covered as well.

[yur2die4]

I like that for the sampler it already has a lot of parameters already 'ready and available'. It's somewhat incredible how efficiently you can choose to reverse, transpose, bit reduce, 'compress' things on Maschine.

I guess since the more recent updates it isn't AS simplified. I actually liked when the top buttons would jump you immediately to your instrument or fx. Sure, they've improved the options, but at a bit of a price for obvious workflow.

[Theo Void]

I'll continue to use Maschine as a writing/inspiration/jamming tool. I've accepted awhile ago that it is what it is and I either use it or ditch it. I can't ditch it. I love the workflow too much. Of course I'll continue to hope that NI will improve it but if not its whatever.

I upgraded from the mk2 to the Studio and it sure is an amazing box. Those screens tho!!!!' : )

For some reason I'm always trying to streamline my set up. Break it down to necessities. It's like the more gear I have the more anxious I become and I feel like I HAVE TO use every piece of gear. I'll feel guilty if I don't. I'm fucking mental. Lol. But how awesome would it be to have all,of Maschine and all of Komplete in a stand alone box. !!!!! It'd be perfect. !!!! --------- a Sorry I'm off on this ridiculous tangent. I'll stop now.

Maschine+Ableton = Painfully Perfect

[Machinesworking]

I'm saying without needing a DAW and beyond just changing scenes. Let's say in Maschine standalone you are improvising over a 1 bar loop that plays 8 times and throughout those 8 times you are automating parameters with knobs. Is there any way to record that 8 bar performance (and beyond) within Maschine? No, there is not. All you are going to get is the automation you played on the last bar looping over and over. It's like if Live didn't have an arrangement view and all you get is auto follow actions on scenes.

I'm not working right now, slow season and mallet injury to my index finger.

I will call NI tech support on Monday, because I do remember hearing about a way to do this but it's tricky from what I recall. If you or anyone else have any other questions feel free to request I ask.