Ableton Live 9 and Machine 2

[Machinesworking]

Honestly, as pointed out by someone PMing me with questions about Beatstep Pro, I would 100% recommend it over either Push or Maschine in terms of drums and step sequencing.
Here's a breakdown:

It works as a three part sequencer without menu diving.

It works in Live and other DAWs, in fact you can rewire Live into another DAW and use Drum Racks with Beatstep Pro. Everything you do in Beatstep Pro is recorded into your DAW as midi notes.
Live and Push don't do that. We know the limitations of Maschine in a DAW.

There's serious K.I.S.S. with it, it does chaining of patterns and rolls, mutes etc. but it's basic, it's what Ableton would have done around version 5, before they lost that particular genius and went with reinventing the Launchpad.

I like Maschine too, but NI show all the reasons why I think they would actually suck and making a DAW with Maschine, it's like kids with Aspergers trying to make something intuitive, they hit it with bullseyes and parts where they just turned around and aim that arrow in the opposite direction.

PS Forgot, it's also about 1/4 the cost of Studio and 1/3 of Push 2.

[yur2die4]

Beatstep pro looks nice as a master midi clock and an outlet for sequencing hardware, but inside the software realm, I don't know if you can really compare it with Maschine. Maschine is the full package. It sequences especially well. I don't know if the beatstep actually 'beats' Maschine to be quite honest; not even by a long shot. (Again, with the exception of outside-of-the-computer action)

[Stromkraft]

Honestly, as pointed out by someone PMing me with questions about Beatstep Pro, I would 100% recommend it over either Push or Maschine in terms of drums and step sequencing.

After a session with it causing serious ground loops via its own cables I don't feel like getting one for myself. I hate those non standard cables and I was not impressed. I don't have time for such things. I don't need anything beyond the Push 1 with PXT Live and the Alphatrack I just got, except maybe a semi-weighted 49 keyboard with aftertouch. There's nothing I want to do I can't do right now.

[Machinesworking]

Beatstep pro looks nice as a master midi clock and an outlet for sequencing hardware, but inside the software realm, I don't know if you can really compare it with Maschine. Maschine is the full package. It sequences especially well. I don't know if the beatstep actually 'beats' Maschine to be quite honest; not even by a long shot. (Again, with the exception of outside-of-the-computer action)

the real issue isn't features here, it's usability. Maschine is hindered by it's own paradigm, it requires each pad be a complete sampler or synth, yet it doesn't have the flexibility of Drum Racks in terms of inside your DAW. Maschine can't really do anything with Drum Racks without complex routing, it has limited step sequencing ability outside it's own 16 pad maschine pack setup, even with a pad that contains say Kontakt drums not in "Maschine" format, let alone synths etc.

Compare this to Beatstep which instantly gives you an 808 style drum machine sending MIDI notes in sync with your DAW to any plug in or even CV hardware.
Sure, Beatstep Pro isn't a self contained semi DAW like Maschine, it's just a sequencer, but the MIDI notes go right into Live and DP here, no issues, no work arounds. I haven't gotten around to composing completely in Beatstep because it's just too easy to record notes into Live and DP etc. The set up of the 16 encoders, sequence buttons and polyphonic aftertouch pads is a dream.

Maschine and Push are both pretty cool, I'm not giving up on either just yet, but if I had to have only one, it would at this time with the software as it stands for Maschine and Push it would definitely be Beatstep Pro, even with it's shortcomings it's just a funner ride.

[yur2die4]

Aside from polyphonic aftertouch, I think the only real limitation is that people want it to do more than it does. Yet, it does a lot. I don't think that the beatstep pro can touch it in sequencing capabilities. The only real difference is that one is midi from a hardware device, and the other is midi from a vst...controlled by a hardware device.

The problems arise when people load samples in Maschine and can't figure out how to play back the samples with both Live and Maschine at the same time. Or how to transfer the samples. I mean, you could easily have Maschine output 16 channels in a number of ways (either as groups or as individual pads) and step sequence the crap out of them.

In fact. I feel like seeing what its limitations are right now. Going to load it up

[Machinesworking]

Honestly, as pointed out by someone PMing me with questions about Beatstep Pro, I would 100% recommend it over either Push or Maschine in terms of drums and step sequencing.

After a session with it causing serious ground loops via its own cables I don't feel like getting one for myself. I hate those non standard cables and I was not impressed. I don't have time for such things. I don't need anything beyond the Push 1 with PXT Live and the Alphatrack I just got, except maybe a semi-weighted 49 keyboard with aftertouch. There's nothing I want to do I can't do right now.

I have good grounding in my house I guess? Haven't had any problem with it at all. 1948 knob and tube wiring, so not anything to write home about, but at least it's got wire running into the ground, my equipment is safe. You should really think about setting something up to ground your own place if you can.
By non standard cables are you talking about the mini USB?? or the 1/8" jacks for CV? Neither of those are non standard. I agree I like regular USB better, preferably A on both sides, but that's only standard on some hard drive cases it seems...

[Machinesworking]

Or how to transfer the samples. I mean, you could easily have Maschine output 16 channels in a number of ways (either as groups or as individual pads) and step sequence the crap out of them.

In fact. I feel like seeing what its limitations are right now. Going to load it up

Tell me how you step sequence inside Maschine a single pad with a third party Kontakt library that has a dozen or more samples of various drums?
That right there is the most glaring WTF? in Maschine to me. I would be happy to have you or anyone give me a solution that isn't exactly what you would do in Live, record the beats in live on pads then quantize them. So far anything not in Maschine expansion format isn't any better in Maschine than directly in Live, but Beatstep fills that hole nicely.
Have fun, I still do like Maschine, despite it's limitations.

[yur2die4]

Agh. I keep forgetting the limitation of midi channel i/o.

I had to open it standalone in order to do multi-channel midi sequencing. :/

[Stromkraft]

I have good grounding in my house I guess?
…
You should really think about setting something up to ground your own place if you can.
By non standard cables are you talking about the mini USB?? or the 1/8" jacks for CV? Neither of those are non standard. I agree I like regular USB better, preferably A on both sides, but that's only standard on some hard drive cases it seems...

It was a quite complex setup with the Elektron Rytm, the new Electribe and 2 MBPs with Live 9.5 and other gear, but the only time we had a very disturbing hum was when the Beatstep was inserted in the MIDI system. It may not be typical and to be fair Arturia have a complete paragraph on the problem:

2.1.3 Something to consider : Ground loops
A ground loop is an unwanted current in a conductor connecting two points. The result is noise in your audio signal, usually in the form of a low-frequency hum. In setups including computers, interfaces and audio devices, it’s possible to end up with an annoying ground loop. We have provided you with a solution, however: the anti ground loop adapter.

Page 12 of the Beatstep Pro manual.

However, using this didn't remedy the problem.

Besides this personally I'm disappointed it's not polyphonic and there are so few tracks. It's not like it's 1986 and we're extremely short on memory or horse power. I get it's a price point thing, but it feels as too little to me. I'm not sure about the internal resolution either. 2048 ppq is the minimum to me.

The external box I'd want myself would allow you to dump 100 tracks, 1000 clips of different lengths from any DAW with a simple SYSEX import action, have at least 32 buttons and 32 switches and possibly look like the Beatstep Pro otherwise, maybe with the double amount of pads.

[Machinesworking]

Besides this personally I'm disappointed it's not polyphonic and there are so few tracks. It's not like it's 1986 and we're extremely short on memory or horse power. I get it's a price point thing, but it feels as too little to me. I'm not sure about the internal resolution either. 2048 ppq is the minimum to me.

The external box I'd want myself would allow you to dump 100 tracks, 1000 clips of different lengths from any DAW with a simple SYSEX import action, have at least 32 buttons and 32 switches and possibly look like the Beatstep Pro otherwise, maybe with the double amount of pads.

You realize everything it does is replicated in CV, not the best thing for polyphonic, and it's modeled after old analog sequencers, not MIDI sequencers? i.e. 16 encoders control the notes, sequence pads control placement in time etc. This is a type of step sequencing you're not going to get with Live really, and if you need 2048ppq for Beatstep to be viable I think you entirely miss the point of the device.
No hardware step sequencer is going to beat a keyboard and a DAW, there's really no point in it. Push is incredibly painfully awkward step sequencing notes IMO, even single notes in Beatstep style, it sucks. Granted you may like it and it's personal taste, our needs differ, I but I only think Push is good at drum machine programming sequencing wise, and again I think Beatstep with Live has advantages there too.

[musikmachine]

It works in Live and other DAWs, in fact you can rewire Live into another DAW and use Drum Racks with Beatstep Pro. Everything you do in Beatstep Pro is recorded into your DAW as midi notes.
Live and Push don't do that. We know the limitations of Maschine in a DAW.

What do you mean here cause you can sequence and trigger other stuff in Live with maschine, takes a bit of setting up but just save an instance as a rack or a group with your routings.

[Machinesworking]

It works in Live and other DAWs, in fact you can rewire Live into another DAW and use Drum Racks with Beatstep Pro. Everything you do in Beatstep Pro is recorded into your DAW as midi notes.
Live and Push don't do that. We know the limitations of Maschine in a DAW.

What do you mean here cause you can sequence and trigger other stuff in Live with maschine, takes a bit of setting up but just save an instance as a rack or a group with your routings.

I mentioned that, it's just that a controller that plays notes into Live is what Live is meant to do and understands elegantly. No fuss, you select BP as a MIDI input and that's it, no pulling in a VST Rack and assigning etc. etc. No CPU hit at all, you're done.

[musikmachine]

It works in Live and other DAWs, in fact you can rewire Live into another DAW and use Drum Racks with Beatstep Pro. Everything you do in Beatstep Pro is recorded into your DAW as midi notes.
Live and Push don't do that. We know the limitations of Maschine in a DAW.

What do you mean here cause you can sequence and trigger other stuff in Live with maschine, takes a bit of setting up but just save an instance as a rack or a group with your routings.

I mentioned that, it's just that a controller that plays notes into Live is what Live is meant to do and understands elegantly. No fuss, you select BP as a MIDI input and that's it, no pulling in a VST Rack and assigning etc. etc. No CPU hit at all, you're done.

Sorry i should have read the thread. I'm kinda with yur2die4 on this:

But once you get to trying to intermesh them, it's always compromises and manual diving. I suggest just letting Maschine reside in its own channel, it's own little world, not interacting with Live. If you make that decision first and foremost, you can save yourself the future agony and time-waste.

That's how i use it these days in conjunction with Live, sound generator, fx processor and sequencer when i want it. Plus there's MXT Live which opens it up as a controller for Live with step sequencing, if i could get it working.

Anyway OP, like others have said getting Maschine to play nice with others can be time consuming, i think triggering scenes is the most straight forward manner, path of least resistance etc. Or you can export the stems or drag and drop samples into Live.

[Machinesworking]

Update, called tech support. So the short answer is NI are not wanting Maschine to compete with Live in terms of an arrangement, they see it as a 'groove box', (serious whatthefuckever there, most groove boxes allow you to arrange your patterns and scenes into songs), though long answer is apparently they are working on implementing some sort of way outside a DAW to arrange everything into a song without mousing around. Should come out before Maschine 3.0 so that's good news.

[jlgrimes]

I've recently purchased a Maschine mk2, having just completed a track in machine I was hoping to be able to carry that track over into ableton in MIDI form in order to further mix and master and edit automations. Having difficulty finding any info or tutorials on this sort of thing. Seen a lot on exporting from maschine to ableton in audio clips. I've tried using the export midi option and routing everything correctly with ableton and machine but the only luck I've had is routing each sound to an individual ableton MIDI track, with the track still actually playing in machine.

I'd like to be able to transfer each sound from maschine into ableton live, giving each sound it's own midi track, and the track playing through ableton rather than maschine so that i can edit any arrangement in arrangement view and edit automation etc and then further mix the track. Is this possible?

Any help would be massively appreciated here.

I will say that trying to use Maschine and Live simultaneously is a convoluted workflow. Sure some folks do it (including myself at times), but now you have two sequencers to worry about instead of one. It makes it even harder as you are trying to compose in two pattern sequencers simultaneously.

As a result many folks would kind of use Live in Arrange mode when linking Maschine.


That said there are many workflows linking these up, but I think the most smooth workflows is working in Maschine separate when you need it (or just want a different sequencing environment different to Ableton's). (i.e. to build your foundation, export to Ableton as audio, and use Ableton to fine tune/mix/ add embellishments). Or using Maschine as a sound module when you need to and relying on Ableton for the bulk of your work. Maschine has a great library, (arguably better than the Ableton suite stuff in some areas especially Hip Hop/R&B). If you are just using a built in sound, loading up Maschine as a VSTi and playing it in Live is pretty simple. The Drumsynths would require a bit more work but probably not too much. But for the samples, consider just pulling the samples into a Drum Rack, or if you have Battery, use that instead and rely on doing your drums in Ableton. Also Komplete Kontrol VSTi is a great way to unify your Komplete selection than relying on Maschine.

I will also add that Maschine functions as a great controller to Live (and probably other VSTs even you own). I use that feature the most with Maschine.