Sound quality issues

morganpage · Post by **morganpage** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:46 pm

Calling all Live 5 gurus -- I'm having some issues getting proper sound quality out of Live 5 for DJ'ing purposes.

Setup: I'm using a Digi002, and running Live 5 as a standalone application on a Powermac G4 933MHz. I set every clip to Hi-Q and complex mode, importing only .AIFF files. Everything is warped using the "set 1.1.1 marker here," and the tempo is set within a few BPMs of the original.

Unfortunatly, the sound quality really seems to suffer - compared to using the 'master tempo' function on CDJ-800s. The songs sound smaller and more synthetic than their originals, kinda like I'm playing low-res MP3s. Is there something I'm missing? some high-quality option tucked away in preferences? CPU performance? Should I not use complex mode?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
thanks!

- Morgan

elemental · Post by **elemental** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:52 am

there was a tip someone posted about splitting the clip into 2, filtering the highs out of one and the lows into another and using different warp modes for each ... think it was tones for low end and beats for high end /...try searching for it.

morganpage · Post by **morganpage** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:13 am

This seems like an unneccesary complication.. Is there something I'm missing? Maybe my monitors (Mackie HR824s) are too honest?

- Morgan

zion15 · Post by **zion15** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:09 am

out of the material i've tested live5 with (i'm more of a producer but i've toyed around with the dj aspect of live too) even the complex warp mode doesn't sound so good on whole tracks IMO. you will definitely hear it on good quality monitors like the mackies and you can hear it even on normal home speakers. it's a highly subjective thing of course.

since you make a comparison to cdj-800s that essentially slow down or speed up the playback changing the pitch at the same time, have you tried using the repitch mode? of course if it's essential to you that the tunes retain their original pitch then it isn't an option.

morganpage · Post by **morganpage** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:28 pm

The repitch is a cool option, but with the CDJ-800s - it seems like the time stretching sounds more natural (using 'master tempo' mode). Maybe I just need to refine the warp markers more in the tracks. But they seem spot on from how they are matching up beat-wise.

I've noticed that Live 5 will do strange things to the beginning transients of kick drums, and especially sustained sounds like strings. Even when the original song is only 2 BPM slower or faster and the file is properly warped. Anyway, I'll probably be focusing more on integrating my 2 CDJ-800s into the sets, without Ableton being the main focus.

- Morgan

stuey · Post by **stuey** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:40 am

Hi, have to say i've noticed poor quality... It fine when going through a pa in a club, but when doing dj sets for radio or for cd's the sound quality is really aparrant...

I've messed with all the timstretch features and whatever I do the sound suffers...

I've also noticed that with Version 5, I get worse problems after recording session information into the arrangement section... Very odd...

elemental · Post by **elemental** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:48 pm

yeah its true even complex mode mashes up the sound.
I would use re-pitch for DJing (if I did)

The CDJ's prob have a dedicated DSP for the stretching, so will be able to be far superior to Live's.

stuey · Post by **stuey** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:14 pm

yeah agree, guess re-picthing is the way to go for dj-ing... which is a total shame as personally timestretched would suit me so much better...

cheeky · Post by **cheeky** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:32 pm

I must admit that sound quality has been an issue for me.

I think that something went wrong on Abe's part!

When I first tested out the beta's, I noticed that the 'complex' warp mode was amazing. I even tried different tracks, mp3's AIFF's (old stuff, new stuff!!).

I even played some stuff to my mate who is Pro Tools all the way. He only uses 'Pitch & Time'. He agreed with me that it was fantastic quality.

But whilst going through the latter betas, I noticed that 'Complex mode' didn't sound as good!

I also noticed that the difference in sound quality was not reflected in the CPU usage?

I have voiced this opinion with ableton who say there is no difference in the way that this function works, but I don't agree!

Is it just me?

My only ever gripe with Live was the poor quality of Timestretch. I thought they had sorted it but don't know now!!

Regards

Keith

stuey · Post by **stuey** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:32 pm

jeez, which beta was it and do you still have it

Yeah if timestretching was sorted Ableton would be an absolutely amazing product... i find its versatility just incredible, but this is really causing me to re-think how best to use it...

supster · Post by **supster** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:57 am

i think it all sounds generally great.

im getting amazing results with MP3s at least 192k or higher.

you need to take into consideration the nature of the track, and how far you're trying to stretch it in pitch or BPM

then set the mode accordingly. if the master BPM is close to original BPM, use beats mode. if its more, use complex

in the end it totally depends on the track, and its hard to predict. I just warped a 118 bpm lush breaks track with sustained bass sounds to 134, and mixed it against a track written to 139

sounds amazing, only if you *knew* the tracks were mixing in Live and you were paying close attention to the sound quality to find flaws could you tell.

theres some amount of psychological perception going on for sure.
.

atomic · Post by **atomic** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:13 am

yep i feel it could be alot better as well

Post by **Alex** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:34 pm

Hi folks,

basically I would doubt there is something like an time stretching algorithm that sounds "perfect" on every material and for every ear.
This is a very subjective issue and the the discussion reminds me of other discussion about bit depth, sample rate, dithering, analog vs. digital,...

But however, which other time stretching algorithm from which application do you prefer or do you think sounds better?

regards,
Alex

eldar · Post by **eldar** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:37 pm

newest mpex. even though i think it's only for offline rendering (?)
would be great nevertheless...

dpel · Post by **dpel** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:09 pm

morganpage wrote:Calling all Live 5 gurus -- I'm having some issues getting proper sound quality out of Live 5 for DJ'ing purposes.

Setup: I'm using a Digi002, and running Live 5 as a standalone application on a Powermac G4 933MHz. I set every clip to Hi-Q and complex mode, importing only .AIFF files. Everything is warped using the "set 1.1.1 marker here," and the tempo is set within a few BPMs of the original.

Unfortunatly, the sound quality really seems to suffer - compared to using the 'master tempo' function on CDJ-800s. The songs sound smaller and more synthetic than their originals, kinda like I'm playing low-res MP3s. Is there something I'm missing? some high-quality option tucked away in preferences? CPU performance? Should I not use complex mode?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
thanks!

- Morgan

when i hear complaints about things sounding "low res" i check all the clock settings 1st.

just my .002 for your 002. try clocking externally.
whatever.
goodluck

Sound quality issues

Sound quality issues

Re: Sound quality issues