Find logic combinations of chords...

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NoSonic822
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Re: Find logic combinations of chords...

Post by NoSonic822 » Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:55 pm

this is the C Major scale, it starts on C, the white key to the left of the two black keys.....not the THREE black keys...that;s F

the C major scale uses all of the WHITE keys on the keyboard'

there are 7 notes in the C major scale.......

the C major chord is made up of 3 notes....C E and G

shlomo
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Re: Find logic combinations of chords...

Post by shlomo » Tue Mar 15, 2016 4:08 pm

Inversoundzzz wrote:this is the C Major scale, it starts on C, the white key to the left of the two black keys.....not the THREE black keys...that;s F

the C major scale uses all of the WHITE keys on the keyboard'

there are 7 notes in the C major scale.......

the C major chord is made up of 3 notes....C E and G
hehehe, nice try...
that is definitely NOT the way to learn harmony and basic chord relationship ;)
BUT circle of Fourths/Fifths should be a nice couvert....bon appetite!

runningwithit
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Re: Find logic combinations of chords...

Post by runningwithit » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:52 am

i think it was Schoenberg, who in conversation with John Cage when he was studying, said, if you never have an understand or feeling for harmony/melody it will be like coming to a wall. to which Cage repied, " then i shall bang my head against that wall for as long as i can"

The story goes something like that.

basically i would tell you just practice, study, practice, study, etc, etc, repeat untill the notes make tangible sense to you.


:D
-runingwithit aka meisterable
https://soundcloud.com/miesterabel

NoSonic822
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Re: Find logic combinations of chords...

Post by NoSonic822 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:49 am

shlomo wrote:
Inversoundzzz wrote:this is the C Major scale, it starts on C, the white key to the left of the two black keys.....not the THREE black keys...that;s F

the C major scale uses all of the WHITE keys on the keyboard'

there are 7 notes in the C major scale.......

the C major chord is made up of 3 notes....C E and G
hehehe, nice try...
that is definitely NOT the way to learn harmony and basic chord relationship ;)
BUT circle of Fourths/Fifths should be a nice couvert....bon appetite!
chords come from scales. :twisted: if youwant to understand chords...you must first understand scales...

but i'll assume your lack of music theory knowledge and let that comment slide.

shlomo
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Re: Find logic combinations of chords...

Post by shlomo » Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:48 am

Inversoundzzz wrote: chords come from scales. :twisted: if youwant to understand chords...you must first understand scales...

but i'll assume your lack of music theory knowledge and let that comment slide.
both chords and scales are built from INTERVALS.
those are the building blocks of western music (at least till early 50's) ;)
so its not chicken/egg thing.
grasp intervals, you'll grasp both...

i also admit your assumption regarding my lack of music theory, true indeed, but not in this "comment slide" case ;)

NoSonic822
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Re: Find logic combinations of chords...

Post by NoSonic822 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:45 am

both chords and scales are built from INTERVALS.
ummmmm ok? so what.....whats your point...? :twisted: what isn't built from intervals....? every cell in your body is built with intervals too?

schlomo?

shlomo
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Re: Find logic combinations of chords...

Post by shlomo » Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:49 am

Inversoundzzz wrote:
both chords and scales are built from INTERVALS.
ummmmm ok? so what.....whats your point...? :twisted: what isn't built from intervals....? every cell in your body is built with intervals too?

schlomo?
biology isn't my field of interest so i wouldn't know about that...
point?
grasp concepts not particulars and it should be easier to gain knowledge,
in this case relationship demonstrated in the concept of circle of fifths/fourths rather than
learning hundreds+ scales available to be able to create progressions...and you will still lack the concept of WHY some chords in the scale fits and other don't
dig that?
inversoundzzz?

NoSonic822
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Re: Find logic combinations of chords...

Post by NoSonic822 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:12 pm

shlomo wrote:
Inversoundzzz wrote:grasp concepts not particulars
learning the Major scale is not a particular...it's the foundation of all Western music....and it's what every mode is based off of... :idea: were communicating in English not Chinese or Indian so I'm assuming that this is what would be of interest to all involved. :twisted:

and learning the CMajor scale is the most important because it's how our pianos and keyboards are layed out.

H20nly
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Re: Find logic combinations of chords...

Post by H20nly » Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:57 pm

*bookmark*
See page 1

NoSonic822
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Re: Find logic combinations of chords...

Post by NoSonic822 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:57 am

i do agree with you schlomo though, that in the end it's all just intervals.....but that is an advanced understanding of how it works....and it just isnt helpful to someone just starting to learn music theory...it's more like something that just starts to reveal itself over time

and i also agree that circle of 5ths is a good reference...but even that is just abit too advanced for someone who doesn't understand chords yet....

before circle of 5ths, before chords, before EVERYTHING....must come the understanding of scales.....everything stems from scales....you can call it intervals if you want but that doesn't give someone any concrete reference point...and people need reference points. :idea:
http://www.key-notes.com/music-theory-intervals.html
Music Theory Intervals

Question: I have a question about intervals. My assignment is to write the full name of each interval:

D to C-sharp?
F to E-flat?
B to G-sharp?

I’m very confused. Can you help me?
Beibei (Singapore)

Albert’s reply: While initially they can be among the more confusing elements of music theory, intervals are actually pretty basic once you learn a few techniques.

First, it’s important to know all of your piano scales. We’ll use all the major scales as references.

Second, you’ll need to know how to read sheet music—at least the basics. The reason is that you can determine the interval visually, just by counting lines and spaces.

For instance, the following interval is a third, since the notes are on adjacent lines, with a single space in between:
third

We don’t actually know which notes they are or what kind of third (major, minor, diminished, augmented), since there’s no clef.
http://www.angelfire.com/music5/theory/#preface
Scales:The building blocks of music

Scales are merely a sequence of notes. The chromatic scale has all twelve of the available notes. From the chromatic scale we can pull notes out and create other scales. The chromatic scale should be thought of as our tool box. We can build our own scales from these twelve notes. Earlier we learned that the distance between any two tones (notes) is called an ‘interval’. With 12 tones available we will measure distances from one note to the next with 2 basic types of intervals ‘half step’ and ‘whole step’. A half step is a movement up(+) or down(-) one note from any note. A whole step is the movement up(+) or down(-) two notes from any note. All scales are based on a starting point known as the "root" note and have an ending point which is usually the higher root note. In scale formation this root note is also the ‘key’ name for the scale. For example, if our scales starting point is the C note then it’s a scale in the key of C. Now from the root, when we move up a half step we come to the next available note. Or we can move up a whole step (which is up two notes) or a whole step and a half step which is three notes etc. Again, a scale generally starts on a note and ends on it’s higher note. So when creating a scale we have a starting and ending point and we pick the notes we want to use in between. Then we write out a fomula based on intervals using variables; W=whole tone, H=half tone, W+=whole tone+half tone,2W=two whole tones.

A whole tone scale would be writen simply W+W+W+W+W+W
In this example we chose a starting note and move in whole steps 6 times bringing us to the higher root note. This scale has six different notes. We call this a hexatonic scale, hex meaning six. When we play the scale from beginning to end we start on the root note and end on it’s next higher root note. So with this whole tone scale we play seven notes.

Once you have your scale formed you can start it from any of the twelve notes. The scale intervals do not change. The starting note will be key name of your scale.

Note: even though the intervals of one scale do not change regardless of where you choose to start your scale… each of the twelve keys have a uniqueness of their own. This is partly due to the fact that the ear is hearing the scale melody at different frequencies. That is why some songs are said to sound better in certain keys. However, this is all a matter of personal opinion.

The natural major Scale (Ionian)

stringtapper
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Re: Find logic combinations of chords...

Post by stringtapper » Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:01 pm

Understanding intervals does not constitute "an advanced understanding." They are, as shlomo said, the building blocks and pretty much any serious music theory text is going to introduce them before scales and chords.

Yes, one can "learn" scales in terms of their sounds and where they lie within a pattern on an instrument, but ultimately if one is going to truly understand the structure of scales then they will have to have a grasp of intervals. At the very least some texts introduce minor and major seconds concurrently with the major scale so that the student can understand how those intervals lie among consecutive pitches within the scale. So saying scales absolutely must come before everything doesn't hold water.
Unsound Designer

NoSonic822
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Re: Find logic combinations of chords...

Post by NoSonic822 » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:50 am

stringtapper wrote:Understanding intervals does not constitute "an advanced understanding.".
it does though....i'm not talking about it in a literal way, but in a deeper philosphical way....you begin to see that all of music is just intervals....you can call them major or minor or diminshed etc....but those are just names and labels.
They are, as shlomo said, the building blocks and pretty much any serious music theory text is going to introduce them before scales and chords.

Yes, one can "learn" scales in terms of their sounds and where they lie within a pattern on an instrument, but ultimately if one is going to truly understand the structure of scales then they will have to have a grasp of intervals. At the very least some texts introduce minor and major seconds concurrently with the major scale so that the student can understand how those intervals lie among consecutive pitches within the scale. So saying scales absolutely must come before everything doesn't hold water
yea i agree that there is no set way of learning it.....


but here's another website called musictheory.net that has the major scale as the first subject...then minor...then a few more.....then way below it it has INTERVALS......it doesnt appear to be in alphabetical order which would put I ntervals before S cales..........it just appears...that if one took this website seriously, that they would want you to learn scales first...specifically the Major.....and then some time after that...intervals.

AND THEN.....after that...we have the section on chords...now...you see why you have it backwards....unless you read pages from the bottom up. :twisted:

https://www.musictheory.net/lessons

hmmm here's another webste called http://www.essential-music-theory.com/m ... rvals.html

here's a weird quote...why would they say something liek this????? they must be wrong too like me right??? *facepalm*
Working out music intervals is easy once you know how, and this page tells you how! The key to working out intervals is to learn about them step-by-step. Having some knowledge of scales is essential and if you don't already know how to work out a major scale you need to learn. I am working on a page about scales at the moment so there will be a link here soon!
but this website says the opposite, so there doesnt seem to be any specific way
and to say one or the other is best is foolish....so im not going to argue...it's such a silly thing to argue about http://musictheoryblog.blogspot.ca/
How to study music theory

The first thing musicians should learn about music theory is notation: the staff, clefs, note names, rhythms, rests, intervals, meter and time signatures, key signatures, and dynamics.
The next things musicians should learn are scales and chords (harmony).
The next things to learn are melody, phrases, and musical forms.
If you have you learned all of the above then you will have a firm grasp of music theory.
and here on this website, it just lumps them together....
Language of Music

3rd to 5th grades

This class continues the Orff based Music Fundamentals Class Language of Music Level 1. Students will use the keyboard in order to interact musically with the concepts being taught.

This class will cover Major and Minor scales, all the intervals, Diatonic Triads, rhythm and meter, and Solfege, as well as the training of the ear. Improvisation and composition will continue to be an integral part of the curricula. The material covered will serve as preparation for the Theory Exam, for those enrolled in the MTAC Certificate of Merit.
Semester classes: 16 weekly classes
Location: SOL-LA Music Academy, 1812 Stanford Street, Santa Monica
https://sollamusicacademy.org/programs/ ... mposition/
so, the point is, just learn about both around the same time....learning one before the other....it may just even come down to personal learning style....learning both at once is defeintely a compromise...but i still think learning scales first is better.
Last edited by NoSonic822 on Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

NoSonic822
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Re: Find logic combinations of chords...

Post by NoSonic822 » Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:14 am

http://www.music-theory-for-musicians.c ... heory.html
this site also lists scales first....and to me it just makes way more sense to learn it first.....because it gives you something real and tangible...something with a beginning and end......so then when you learn intervals.....it fits them into the scematic you already have in your mind.....
Learn the scales first (all of them), then the intervals. When I see two random notes out of context, I guess I would just think of the first one as the tonic, and then since I know that key from practicing scales, the interval to the second one is obvious.
http://ask.metafilter.com/40347/How-bes ... -intervals

NoSonic822
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Re: Find logic combinations of chords...

Post by NoSonic822 » Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:25 am

http://www.danjonesguitarist.com/TheTec ... nition.pdf

this site has an interesting way of approaching intervals also....

NoSonic822
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Re: Find logic combinations of chords...

Post by NoSonic822 » Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:29 am

http://guitar.eku.edu/sites/guitar.eku. ... 281%29.pdf

in this outline it has scales before intervals...scales is lesson 2, intervals is lesson 3

its important for anyone reading to understand in this situation, that no way of learning music theory is set in stone....but some things are more important to learn first...and just logical... :idea: :twisted:

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