Are downloadable Loops, patches, presets, etc for amateurs?

[EasyWorkflow]

Hello friends...I remeber about 1 1/2 ago I made this killer recording using prerecorded loops and emailed track to a friend. This friend has been playing with keys and MIDI like 25 years from very beginning. He proceeded to tell me anyone can do what I did because these programs beat match, set correct key, etc. I explained it's how I arranged the song that made it special. How I built up drums, came in with strings etc. He still said makes no difference. All bogus if you just combine loops. I lived with that mentality ever since that day and made a decision I will only write my own MIDI so no one can ever accuse me of using other people's sound design.

For last year, I learned how to use piano roll to write and edit MIDI. Once comfortable with that, I started using controllers because they felt more musical to me as I am a guitarist of 40 years. My main controller is my Fishman Triple Play wireless guitar pickup even though I also have Push 2, NI 61 key keyboard, and a few other pieces of gear.

I just signed up for the Splice program where you can download patches, samples etc.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but my new view about downloading loops, samples etc is that there is NOTHING wrong using a sample or loop on a track. My friend in a good way made me learn MIDI because of what he said to me.

I realize that it's much more about song structure...intro, buildups, breakdowns, verse, chorus, bridge, outro, melodies, harmony etc with a memorable hook that creates great songs. Even though I still write 90% of all MIDI, I find a good loop can be a jump start for a new song. I also learned you can easily change tempo, key, groove, add effects etc so loop sounds nothing like original.

I would love to hear everyones feedback about this post because I am going to send a link of this thread to my buddy who thinks loops are for losers. I am so curious to hear your responses and respect whatever you may post.

[Tarekith]

If you're having fun making music, doesn't matter what you use.

[Flange]

I would say it all depends what style of music you make, how you use them and how much. I wouldn't make an entire song from a sampler pack but I'm not afraid to use a beat loop that is already beautifully constructed and compressed etc as a base for my song however I am loving the Haus drum plugin more and more so creating more of my own beats lately. As far as presets and patches I love them and use all the time. Most of them you can tweak anyway if you really want to make it your own. I do steer clear of bass and synth loops as I can easily make own and you need to be real careful of dodgy vocal samples that will be easily recognisable as samples.
People who judge others as somehow inauthentic or not a "real musician" etc just because they do not comply with their own expectations, values and ideas about what a real musician should be are basically arrogant wankers. Music has always been and always will be subjective. What you hate I might love and visa versa. True artists know that the capabilty they have is within everyone. It's not some special thing that they hide behind to judge people who happened to have not accessed their own creativity just yet.
Punk was all about giving the finger to how other people think things "should" be. The music industry, the establishment, the bourgeoise.
The people selling these packs aren't going away so they must be making money therefore people must be using them. My tip is to use sparingly and use well but try not to depend on them too much.

[Stromkraft]

I would love to hear everyones feedback about this post because I am going to send a link of this thread to my buddy who thinks loops are for losers. I am so curious to hear your responses and respect whatever you may post.

While I may use the occasional loop or sample, I do feel it's a waste of time hunting for great samples mostly, even if I see some possible positive aspects of it, like learning yourself what you like and possible to make arrangements quickly. But the downside could be music that risk just sounding very much alike, like a carbon copy, and that is boring as hell.

I need that time to learn more about programming my own synths, playing, composing and finishing lots of tracks.

I'm somewhat grateful I dislike most presets as that forces me to program my own. I still learn from some aspects of existing patches and obviously my taste have been formed by sound programmers before me. "General" presets, like classic sounds can always be re-invented yet feel close. The important thing should be what you play and how you express your ideas.

When you use sampled bars of music or otherwise steal ideas I think the vital thing is that you make it your own and use the idea in a unique and personal way and go creative with it. After all, who needs more cookie cutter music? I don't.

One artist that use a lot of samples and in my opinion still manage to sound exactly like himself is Four Tet.

[Angstrom]

There are a lot of sides to music

For the creator
Side 1: the enjoyment of making it
Side 2: the enjoyment of performing it to people
Side 3: the enjoyment of perfecting your technique and developing a flow state
Side 4: the enjoymnent of the social aspect & how your music is a component for a scene
Side 5: the enjoyment of social relevance

For the listener
The enjoyment of hearing a new track you like
The enjoyment of sharing it with friends
The enjoyment of hearing the artist develop further
The ... Etc.

Many of these can work just fine with a bunch of pre made loops. You can get by, satisfy the basic requirments

But, think of making music like martial arts.
Do you want to be the fat one-punch slugger with no cardio, or do you want to be the guy with all the techniques and slick moves that gets results because always he knows what the fuck he's doing.

In music that means understanding as much theory as you can, as much production knowledge as you can, and as much performing technique as you can.

One punch sluggers are great. But the charm wears off quickly if that's all you have.
Better to have a full arsenal and to know how to use it, when to use it, and then ... by all means include loops and presets within that arsenal.

[EasyWorkflow]

There are a lot of sides to music

But, think of making music like martial arts.
Do you want to be the fat one-punch slugger with no cardio, or do you want to be the guy with all the techniques and slick moves that gets results because always he knows what the fuck he's doing.

In music that means understanding as much theory as you can, as much production knowledge as you can, and as much performing technique as you can.

One punch sluggers are great. But the charm wears off quickly if that's all you have.
Better to have a full arsenal and to know how to use it, when to use it, and then ... by all means include loops and presets within that arsenal.

Bruce Lee is my hero. Flow like water. I say no more.

[Martin Gifford]

Everyone is different. Maybe a mix of fun and productivity is ideal. To that end, I follow Avicii's pragmatism as demonstrated in this video. He maximises both fun and productivity. Of course, once you have a good workflow, you will use it express your own taste, style, genre, and creative ideas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dIcuU58Oy8

BTW, the comments section is interesting. Here's two examples:

"Avicii- a master preset selector?"

"Music taste aside, it's strangely phenomenal how this kid cranks out track after track with fruity loops and a dell PC, and then goes on to sell a trillion records, while trillions of guys patch up complex gear and wicked arrays of modular machinery and yet all they get is a few pity likes from friends and family after he forced them to listen to their sound cloud uploads.?"

[Angstrom]

Everyone is different. Maybe a mix of fun and productivity is ideal.

completely. Yes, The balance is somewhere between.

The modular blerp people love the act of creating sounds. It's an enjoyable process. But loving creating sounds is like loving hitting stone with a hammer and chisel - it doesn't mean you are making a sculpture. That's why they have so few "likes" on their output - it's not produced any end result.

Meanwhile the preset flippers and loop loaders can slap an enjoyable sounding track together in 10 minutes. Just like I could probably pour some plaster into a latex mold and give you a very passable Venus de Milo, and many many people would say "I love this!"

So, the balance requires both.
If you want a unique but listenable outcome you need to know both paths.

Personally I don't like to derail my songwriting process by sliding into a detailed patch creation while I'm thinking of tunes, so ... I make my patches on rainy Sundays as a therapy.
Sound & patch making is related to music but only in the same way that setting up a guitar is related to playing it.
But that tinkering process creates the sounds and tools which I know I will want later, and I can add controls which will give me enough immediate flexibility at the point of use. I can tweak my patch to make it fit - because I know how I made it.

So I make a bunch of presets as a kit, I tag them* so I can find them later, and then when I'm songwriting I can grab them again quickly and easilly

(*/jk I can't tag them in Ableton because the browser is shit, so I can never find them again)

[Tarekith]

Have you thought about adding a thread in the wishlist forum for tagging? Just in case.

[Angstrom]

I haven't bothered in centercode because it would just get buried. And I suspect the wishlist here is better termed "the shouting hole"
But yes, really I should do it because I have specific thoughts on it (as you can tell). But I suspect Ableton have actually hired an information architect by now who has it all under control.

[Tarekith]

Internally there are some features now referred to as the "Angstrom list", so that shouting hole must lead somewhere.

[Martin Gifford]

Everyone is different. Maybe a mix of fun and productivity is ideal.

completely. Yes, The balance is somewhere between.

The modular blerp people love the act of creating sounds. It's an enjoyable process. But loving creating sounds is like loving hitting stone with a hammer and chisel - it doesn't mean you are making a sculpture. That's why they have so few "likes" on their output - it's not produced any end result.

Meanwhile the preset flippers and loop loaders can slap an enjoyable sounding track together in 10 minutes. Just like I could probably pour some plaster into a latex mold and give you a very passable Venus de Milo, and many many people would say "I love this!"

So, the balance requires both.
If you want a unique but listenable outcome you need to know both paths.

Personally I don't like to derail my songwriting process by sliding into a detailed patch creation while I'm thinking of tunes, so ... I make my patches on rainy Sundays as a therapy.
Sound & patch making is related to music but only in the same way that setting up a guitar is related to playing it.
But that tinkering process creates the sounds and tools which I know I will want later, and I can add controls which will give me enough immediate flexibility at the point of use. I can tweak my patch to make it fit - because I know how I made it.

So I make a bunch of presets as a kit, I tag them* so I can find them later, and then when I'm songwriting I can grab them again quickly and easilly

(*/jk I can't tag them in Ableton because the browser is shit, so I can never find them again)

Or maybe we can do one before the other. I'd rather be Avicii first, for a few years, then with all that money, fame, and women, I can afford to be Angstrom.

I found that creating sounds can lead to songs, and it gives your songs uniqueness. But moving from big picture to small picture is easier and faster than vice versa. And hearing sounds in context makes problems stand out anyway.

A big benefit of the preset approach is that you can complete a huge number of songs very quickly. Then sheer probability means that you are more likely to create a hit song.

And there are millions of presets now, so with a good mental database like Avicii has, you have an ample pallette.

But in my dreams I've heard music that is sublime, so we might all be heading towards that, and Avicii's presets definitely don't cut it. It's some kind of far out celestial music.

Yes, the browser needs a total overhaul to make everything super-fast, fun, and intuitive. Make it so a rank beginner could find exactly what she wants instantly.