Splitting Drum Rack

[eddiejag]

Hello,

This is my first post on here though I've been using Ableton Live for years. I was mostly using Maschine as my drum sequencer, but now that I've gotten a Push 2 I've been dabbling with Drum Rack. Anyways, I've finished this song (mostly) and want to export each individual sounds from 2 different drum racks I have in my session. I have tried multiple ways, as it seems there is no official consensus on how to do this, but each has it's quirks. So the first and easiest way I managed this was expanding the rack and dragging each pad to a midi channel, then subsequently freezing or exporting if need be. However, once I got all my pads out like this and compared it to the original drum rack, it sounded differently. The rack came pre loaded with saturator, reverb, and parallel compression. So those didn't transfer over at all. The other way to go about this is soloing each pad within the rack, freezing, and dragging down. By the way, why does Ableton still not have "commit" like Pro Tools? Freezing and dragging is a very slow process. Could be faster to duplicate the rack 5 or 6 times, solo each pad and commit everything. Anyways, this method works but is time consuming. It also produced higher levels that the original, probably due to the P compression and saturator hitting the threshold less because the other parts were soloed. Anyways, I guess in my particular case the second method is more coherent, because even though it adds some gain it sounds a lot more similar to the whole rack than dragging midi channels out. It just seems really clunky and awkward. I'm surprised Ableton, a company fixated on efficiency, hasn't made this process easier yet. Does anyone know a form not described on here? I know of the "extract all" but that is basically like dragging the midi channel out from what I can deduce. Whats your method?

Jag

[eclipxe]

Hello,

This is my first post on here though I've been using Ableton Live for years. I was mostly using Maschine as my drum sequencer, but now that I've gotten a Push 2 I've been dabbling with Drum Rack. Anyways, I've finished this song (mostly) and want to export each individual sounds from 2 different drum racks I have in my session. I have tried multiple ways, as it seems there is no official consensus on how to do this, but each has it's quirks. So the first and easiest way I managed this was expanding the rack and dragging each pad to a midi channel, then subsequently freezing or exporting if need be. However, once I got all my pads out like this and compared it to the original drum rack, it sounded differently. The rack came pre loaded with saturator, reverb, and parallel compression. So those didn't transfer over at all. The other way to go about this is soloing each pad within the rack, freezing, and dragging down. By the way, why does Ableton still not have "commit" like Pro Tools? Freezing and dragging is a very slow process. Could be faster to duplicate the rack 5 or 6 times, solo each pad and commit everything. Anyways, this method works but is time consuming. It also produced higher levels that the original, probably due to the P compression and saturator hitting the threshold less because the other parts were soloed. Anyways, I guess in my particular case the second method is more coherent, because even though it adds some gain it sounds a lot more similar to the whole rack than dragging midi channels out. It just seems really clunky and awkward. I'm surprised Ableton, a company fixated on efficiency, hasn't made this process easier yet. Does anyone know a form not described on here? I know of the "extract all" but that is basically like dragging the midi channel out from what I can deduce. Whats your method?

Jag

What is your end goal?

[Stromkraft]

If you want separate tracks of audio, extract your drum rack from the beginning into their own tracks and move internal effects to returns.

I totally love drum racks, but I found the idea to use drum racks as some kind of sub mixer to be quite daft. Why would you want that? If I want a submixer I make one in Live myself using bussing.

So I build songs with extracted drum rack chains from the beginning. I've explained the hows and whys elsewhere in these forums. In short, I see no real downsides for this method, only upsides.

[chapelier fou]

In short, I see no real downsides for this method, only upsides.

When you do this from the beginning, yes. It's trickier when you already used Drum Racks and want to switch to another routing system.

[Stromkraft]

the OP is asking because he already has those tracks done.

The only real benefit of drum racks that I can see is if you want to play them live using pads on your MIDI controller, but for music I make - psychedelic trance - it's not really practical, so indeed I always keep my drums in separate tracks and just group / send them as needed.

One way out is to record each voice one a at a time to its own track or alternatively another way is to recreate the sound of the drum rack in normal tracks, with extraction being the main tool. That would mean levels would need to be redone as with and re-routing and copying drum rack master effects to a buss instead. Both methods are very doable.

[Stromkraft]

One other benefit of drum rack I just thought of is having the different sounds side by side in a clip, which makes it easy to program the pattern. Another one is a "choke" feature, which would have to be somehow replicated e.g. using side-chaining.

All of this is retainable with fully extracted chains. You have the master clip, if you want, in the parent drum rack, and the extracted tracks have their own drum racks, just fewer pads. The monitor button decide what clip plays the instrument in that track. You don't have to make one chain per track, so hi-hats for instance can share the same extracted rack. This makes it easier to program and edit patterns.

Extraction takes some skill and knowledge depending on the instruments involved. It's a bit messy to save as a sole preset as you'd need to reconnect routings, so I put mine in my templates. When I start a new project, all the routings are in place so I can get right down to making music.

[chapelier fou]

You have the master clip, if you want, in the parent drum rack, and the extracted tracks have their own drum racks, just fewer pads. The monitor button decide what clip plays the instrument in that track. You don't have to make one chain per track, so hi-hats for instance can share the same extracted rack.

This way, do you still have the name of the rack chains in the "master" track ?

[Stromkraft]

You have the master clip, if you want, in the parent drum rack, and the extracted tracks have their own drum racks, just fewer pads. The monitor button decide what clip plays the instrument in that track. You don't have to make one chain per track, so hi-hats for instance can share the same extracted rack.

This way, do you still have the name of the rack chains in the "master" track ?

No, I add empty pads in the parent drum rack that basically sends the right MIDI notes. While all of this is a bit involved, it also gives me full control on every level and ultra-flexibility. I record MIDI from drummers this way, not only when doing my own pad playing/programming.

[eddiejag]

If you want separate tracks of audio, extract your drum rack from the beginning into their own tracks and move internal effects to returns.

I totally love drum racks, but I found the idea to use drum racks as some kind of sub mixer to be quite daft. Why would you want that? If I want a submixer I make one in Live myself using bussing.

So I build songs with extracted drum rack chains from the beginning. I've explained the hows and whys elsewhere in these forums. In short, I see no real downsides for this method, only upsides.

Hmm if I did that I would have to put 10 different instances of reverb, saturator and p compression. Or use the aux sends, which in ableton I find quite messy.

It sucks that a lot of people don't use drum racks anymore seemingly because of issues like this. Drum racks should function like a drum mixer, but be easier to split in the end. I hope they come up with some new ideas in upcoming updates.

[Stromkraft]

If you want separate tracks of audio, extract your drum rack from the beginning into their own tracks and move internal effects to returns.

I totally love drum racks, but I found the idea to use drum racks as some kind of sub mixer to be quite daft. Why would you want that? If I want a submixer I make one in Live myself using bussing.

So I build songs with extracted drum rack chains from the beginning. I've explained the hows and whys elsewhere in these forums. In short, I see no real downsides for this method, only upsides.

Hmm if I did that I would have to put 10 different instances of reverb, saturator and p compression. Or use the aux sends, which in ableton I find quite messy.

I use drum racks all the time so I have no idea what you're talking about here.

How are sends messy? Sends and returns are what makes it totally unnecessary to add "10 different instances of reverb, saturator and p compression" on 10 tracks or whatever. I use the same reverbs, delays or whatever for drums as other instruments because I use sends as any sane producer.

I send all drums to a drum buss and apply any magic for only drums right there.

[AFL]

Hey, so not sure if this helps you. I just set up several audio tracks and changed the input of each one to a different output (pad) from the Drum Rack post FX. Then arm each track (why did I not realize until now that you could do this?) And voila!