Ratchet sequencing with Live 9 Arpeggiator?

[deckard1]

Hi,

I just moved over from Logic so am very new to Live. I want to create an effect where the rate of an arpeggiated sequence is sped up periodically by my using a controller (Novation LauchControl XL). For example, if the rate of the sequence is set at 1/16, I would like to speed up the rate for just a second or two to a quicker rate...giving a 'ratcheting' effect. The old-school electronic music group Tangerine Dream was known for doing this within their music. It's a very cool effect. I can provide an audio example, if need be.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

[Angstrom]

yep, there are a few ways to do this.

here's one method using two arpeggiators, the first is doing 8th notes, the second is doing 16ths. While the gate length of the first one is set to less than 50% the second one never gets a chance to begin. If you extend the first gate length to greater than 50% the second arpeggiator will do whatever it is set to do for the second half of that 8th note. So you could set it to play a triplet, or 32nd note trill, ascending in 5ths. whatever.

Of course you may say - but I want the note lengths to all be 99%, when they reach my instrument. In that case I suggest placing a note-length device at the end of this chain. usually it's not an issue though because tange style pulser synths are pretty staccato.




Of course, in this example you have to manually trigger the trill. It is in fact possible to make the trills occur on a particular beat, or randomly. but that's a longer post and requires a working knowledge of the Velocity device and other tricks.

[deckard1]

yep, there are a few ways to do this.

here's one method using two arpeggiators, the first is doing 8th notes, the second is doing 16ths. While the gate length of the first one is set to less than 50% the second one never gets a chance to begin. If you extend the first gate length to greater than 50% the second arpeggiator will do whatever it is set to do for the second half of that 8th note. So you could set it to play a triplet, or 32nd note trill, ascending in 5ths. whatever.

Of course you may say - but I want the note lengths to all be 99%, when they reach my instrument. In that case I suggest placing a note-length device at the end of this chain. usually it's not an issue though because tange style pulser synths are pretty staccato.




Of course, in this example you have to manually trigger the trill. It is in fact possible to make the trills occur on a particular beat, or randomly. but that's a longer post and requires a working knowledge of the Velocity device and other tricks.

This is great. Thank you very much. Would you recommend I duplicate all the settings in the image you have provided or just what the pointer is pointing at...the gate...and the corresponding rates, of course?

No problem with manually triggering as this is what I wanted to do initially.

Also, you mentioned a 'note-length device', does one come natively with Ableton Live?

Thanks again.

[deckard1]

Okay...set it up like you suggested. It's almost there. The only issue being that I need the repeats to be quicker when increasing the gate above %50. What I am looking for will be very obvious if you listen to the following track by Tangerine Dream:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgkF2hTO8Y0

Thanks!

[Angstrom]

Then in the second device in the image set the rate to 32. Or set it to 24 for a triplet effect.
Remember to turn the first Gate length up to near 99% to allow enough of thesee trill notes through, otherwise you'll only hear one.

[deckard1]

Then in the second device in the image set the rate to 32. Or set it to 24 for a triplet effect.
Remember to turn the first Gate length up to near 99% to allow enough of thesee trill notes through, otherwise you'll only hear one.

Okay...thanks! Will give it a shot. By the way, did you listen to the track I linked? If so, what did you think? These guys (Tangerine Dream) practically invented electronic music...and, they did most of it before MIDI was even implemented. Blows my mind.

[Angstrom]

Heh.
Yeah, I have heard them before.
Here's a track I did which was influenced by my teenage years listening to them.

https://soundcloud.com/angstrom/reticulater

no ratcheting in there though. Just noodling.

[deckard1]

Heh.
Yeah, I have heard them before.
Here's a track I did which was influenced by my teenage years listening to them.

https://soundcloud.com/angstrom/reticulater

no ratcheting in there though. Just noodling.

Honestly...that was very, very good. Excellent. You obviously know what you are doing, and, this is the type of music I am trying to compose within Live myself. Do you mind if I ask you if you used Live as your DAW for this track? If so, how long did it take you from beginning to end to produce the track? Also, which synth plugins did you predominantly use for the sequencing parts? Sounds like you have a Moog (either virtual or the 'real thing') in there for the beginning sequence?

Again...very well done.

[Angstrom]

Thanks! Yes that was all done in Ableton Live

I think that actually took quite a long time to do, but mainly because it evolved in chunks. I always have a few tangerine style prototype ideas knocking around and I find them a lot of fun to work on, even if they probably aren't the most ground-breaking pieces stylistically.

Like most of these projects it evolved this way : I did the very first chunk of it with the rotating synth parts and the white noise drum all in one evening, just experimenting with a way of recreating the Tangerine sequencer style using Session clip triggering and loop points.
What I mean by that is the way that they would have a long sequence but limit the loop to just 3 notes of it, then slowly expand the loop length or move the start point. So I was just messing about doing that.

Then I left it alone. A month or so later I started a project of making a self-resonating guitar pickup/transducer thing, a home built sustainiac - and I loaded that track up just as some backing to play on top of as I adjusted the circuit - and recorded that bendy sustaining guitar part on it.

For some reason the same week I became interested in that particular drum style, the 1970s drum-solo style rolling & flamming stuff, so I programmed that part up using Session Drums Multimic. Then I probably decided to finish it off that week and I added the classic tangerine dream style droning middle bit, and slapped the ending on at that point. Oh, and then I decided to play bit more guitar. And then I decided to harmonise that solo with a synth because I can never stop finishing!

Synths used : the first part is actually 3 instances of NI Massive(!) doing different lines. Also with Arturia's Mini Moog for the asynchronous arpeggiator sweeps and AAS Analog for the white noise drum.
In the middle part the drones are Ableton Operator, and a bit of NI Absynth. Then the last part is a lot of FM8, for both the pulsating parts and also the leads. Plus guitar of course.

These pieces are fun to do, but somehow I feel like I'm covering old ground when I do them. I have a stack of them!

[deckard1]

Thanks! Yes that was all done in Ableton Live

I think that actually took quite a long time to do, but mainly because it evolved in chunks. I always have a few tangerine style prototype ideas knocking around and I find them a lot of fun to work on, even if they probably aren't the most ground-breaking pieces stylistically.

Like most of these projects it evolved this way : I did the very first chunk of it with the rotating synth parts and the white noise drum all in one evening, just experimenting with a way of recreating the Tangerine sequencer style using Session clip triggering and loop points.
What I mean by that is the way that they would have a long sequence but limit the loop to just 3 notes of it, then slowly expand the loop length or move the start point. So I was just messing about doing that.

Then I left it alone. A month or so later I started a project of making a self-resonating guitar pickup/transducer thing, a home built sustainiac - and I loaded that track up just as some backing to play on top of as I adjusted the circuit - and recorded that bendy sustaining guitar part on it.

For some reason the same week I became interested in that particular drum style, the 1970s drum-solo style rolling & flamming stuff, so I programmed that part up using Session Drums Multimic. Then I probably decided to finish it off that week and I added the classic tangerine dream style droning middle bit, and slapped the ending on at that point. Oh, and then I decided to play bit more guitar. And then I decided to harmonise that solo with a synth because I can never stop finishing!

Synths used : the first part is actually 3 instances of NI Massive(!) doing different lines. Also with Arturia's Mini Moog for the asynchronous arpeggiator sweeps and AAS Analog for the white noise drum.
In the middle part the drones are Ableton Operator, and a bit of NI Absynth. Then the last part is a lot of FM8, for both the pulsating parts and also the leads. Plus guitar of course.

These pieces are fun to do, but somehow I feel like I'm covering old ground when I do them. I have a stack of them!

Wow. Very impressive! I've only been using Live Intro for a couple of weeks so obviously have some serious learning to do!

Do you know if there's a drum pack for Live made by Ableton that samples the classic analog drum sounds...808, 909, Lynn, etc? I am in desperate need of something like this or similar.

Thanks!

[colulizard]

Sorry to bring this post back to life after all these years (very nice track Reticulater, by the way).

I'm not in front of Live at the moment, but thinking out loud.

Could you map a series macro in Live so that each one plays the ratchet effect (when macro is turned) at a different rate?

So for instance, one macro controls both gate length of ARP1, and rate of ARP 2. Then set min-max of gate on ARP2 for "1/32" and another macro doing the same, setting it for "1/24" etc etc.

The reason I say multiple macros is so that the ratcheting will be instantaneous for the interval you want. If i were to set up one macro, I can imagine it won't smoothly go to the value you want (especially for one note)