How to choose a key when you compose a song ?

[Wakeon]

Hey friends,

I learnt with your help how to use and compose chords but I need to know something else.
When i am composing a song I don't know which key to use. I know that major key are useful for happy chords and others (minor chords) for more dramatic but i don't know which key are better for "dance"
Can you help me please
Thanks

[yur2die4]

Djs often times do mixing with key in mind. What I would suggest is kind of getting an idea of what key different music you listen to is in and also take note of the feeling and vibe it give you.

You'll especially notice that some keys are just more common than others. Some people stick to what they are comfortable with composing in, or they get an idea on the keys and then find out whatever key that idea was and use that key.

When you expect your track to be mixed in a set, it might be nice to keep your song either within that key, or harmonically within reach of that common key (like a fifth).

Lastly, sometimes people write what is easy, other time they write what challenges them because it forces a different way of thinking which can produce unique result. When you Know a key really well you might already 'know the drill' and not necessarily feel inspired or challenged enough.

[Wakeon]

Djs often times do mixing with key in mind. What I would suggest is kind of getting an idea of what key different music you listen to is in and also take note of the feeling and vibe it give you.

You'll especially notice that some keys are just more common than others. Some people stick to what they are comfortable with composing in, or they get an idea on the keys and then find out whatever key that idea was and use that key.

When you expect your track to be mixed in a set, it might be nice to keep your song either within that key, or harmonically within reach of that common key (like a fifth).

Lastly, sometimes people write what is easy, other time they write what challenges them because it forces a different way of thinking which can produce unique result. When you Know a key really well you might already 'know the drill' and not necessarily feel inspired or challenged enough.

All right, but how do you choose a key when you begin a song ? Which elements help you to pick a key ?

[nowtime]

Play the first chord. Does it feel good or just so-so? Try it another key. Any difference in how it feels? Try another and another if it doesn't feel good yet. Don't go in order downward or upward when trying different keys. Jump around randomly. Some keys just feel different depending on the chord and the sound. When it feels good you're on to something.

[kitekrazy]

I usually stay away from B, F# (Gb) C# (Db). These are not practical keys.

[Stromkraft]

Play the first chord. Does it feel good or just so-so? Try it another key. Any difference in how it feels? Try another and another if it doesn't feel good yet. Don't go in order downward or upward when trying different keys. Jump around randomly. Some keys just feel different depending on the chord and the sound. When it feels good you're on to something.

I assume that you with the "first chord" mean the tonic? But playing only the tonic won't reveal much about the key. Especially as you consider all keys are related to each other and the tonic of one key is the dominant or subdominant in another.

At minimum I'd suggest two chords that feel like they belong together. Then find out which key these are in. If you feel the need to.

[Stromkraft]

All right, but how do you choose a key when you begin a song ? Which elements help you to pick a key ?

I think going into the basic musical idea you might have or get when you start playing around is a better starting point than picking a key, though you can do that of course. If you have a chord progression you're making, then don't worry about the key. Go for what chords feel good to you.

When you got the progression down you can start to transpose it if you like, still without worrying about what key you're in. You can decide this later when you're satisfied with the progression.

Actually, the short answer is to stop here. Never worry about keys, just about what sounds good. Who cares what key it is in if it sounds great? Unless you have a classically schooled audience no-one will come out after a gig and comment on how great your use of E Minor was. OK, some people with absolute pitch talents might too, but why worry about this at all?

I might write the long answer later (started on it).

[Angstrom]

At minimum I's suggest two chords that feel like they belong together. Then find out which key these are in.

That's is quite difficult for beginners because they occaisionally make weird chord choices
With a beginners-mind people can often stumble across chords from parallel keys (borrowed chords).
Or inversions, those can be very tricky at the start, especially the ones where the 7 and 9 are involved.

Really there are no shortcuts past that first part of learning - what a key is, how chords are made, how they relate to each other, what inversions are, and a few of the common tricks.
Without that groundwork it's all just pretending IMO, because there's never a way to figure out the rest of the song from the first few mysterious chords. If a beginner wants to make magic they better learn the basic spells.

[yur2die4]

Keep in mind that if you're at the beginning stages where you are asking questions like this, then there is no way you could possibly written 'too many' tracks in any particular key.

It is probably more important to just make songs at whatever key they start in than to worry about picking one. You probably could use the practice in composition before worrying about taking advantage of a specific key.

For instance, if you haven't written 20 songs in A minor, then A minor is still on the table, even if you've never written in any other key. If you've written 20 songs in A minor and have not tried any others, then you might want to try others so your tracks don't all sound 'samey' when heard back to back.

Choosing key is an imagined road block for you right now. You pretty much cannot go wrong once you've picked one. And if you do end up doing something that someday wrong, that's part of learning and getting better at making music. You won't understand mistakes until you've made them and identified why they don't work in one case (but might work in another).

One final note, if you are writing pieces in key using special tools that force you to be in any key you want, this is really good for learning composition based on a scale. You can use this to make really good tracks. There is nothing that would hold you back from sounding great. However, those types of tools do not generally force you to have to 'sift through' the notes or count steps in order to write. Or force you to hit one key on the keyboard as opposed to another. Just as a bike with training wheels would not prevent you from riding anywhere you please, there is still often times a goal of learning to bike without the training wheels. The freedom and the balance requirements/compensation feel different. And because of this, one might actually start writing differently or making different choices when they do not have the training wheels on.

Still, technically there is no reason why you cannot enjoy writing now. Regardless of 'which key', as long as you pick one, perhaps an easier or more familiar one at first (unless you're up for the challenge), it will help you get better at writing without letting determining a key, or the complications of keys you might not be familiar with yet, distract you from developing solid experience writing music as a whole.

As I mentioned earlier also, if you want to sound similar to certain artists or at least understand why or how they wrote their music, I would just try writing in a key that a song you like is in. You can either make a 'secretly part II' of the track, or do your own track that is in the same key (so you're able to hear the harmonies in your head after already being familiar with the vibe of the other musician's track) ..same key, but your own unique arrangement of sounds etc.

[Machinesworking]

Is there any real answer to this? OK maybe I'm taking to too far, but I literally did the whole "I know three chords I'm writing a song" approach, and do not fully understand why people get hung up about it? Most electronic dance music doesn't even have complete melodies, so the key is entirely irrelevant.

I go back to the same question, why are you making music if you have no vision of the music you want to make? Not saying you shouldn't make music, but that might be the bigger question here. In my opinion too many people either have too generic taste in music, or they have too specific taste in music, i.e. "I like Deadmause5, I study and play music that's an exact replica" or "I like music, I want to play music, where do I start?" Take 5 to 10 musicians/bands you like, hopefully from different genres and dissect what you like about their sound. If you cannot do that then get back in music theory classes or start in on reverse engineering a single thing you like.

Chuck Berry just died, he's arguably the father of Rock and Roll. It's not that he came up with it in a vacuum, he took the staccato twang of Country, stuck the force and tone of Blues and melded it with Big Band tricks into pop. Other people added things etc. but in the end Berry didn't sound like anyone in particular by sounding a little bit like a lot of people. HE had vision, the bigger problem here is you need to find yours, and not knowing what key to write a dance track in is a huge indicator you haven't found it yet.

[Angstrom]

I think I agree.

The best way to start writing songs is to enjoy a bunch of other bands and then attempt to do something which Frankensteins them all together, fail at that, but press the wrong button which makes a weird noise which causes you to be accidentally be declared "the genius who invented Polski Surf", or "the originator of trans-Somalian Death Jive"
, or something. That was my process at the start and still is today.

As for deciding chords. My music usually starts in my head before it gets moved to a computer. I have a tune orbiting around my skull for a while then I attempt to lay it down and it either comes out as I initially intended, or it comes out slightly different. If I'm starting by messing around on a keyboard or guitar I just jam around until something sounds OK, then work it out once I have laid the core chords down. Usually that will be based on chord voicings I learned from other people's songs. A bit of Bob James' - Angela and a bit of Paranoid by Black Sabbath. combined.

[Stefan Jantschek]

Like the wise people here already said.

There are different options:

-Follow your ears. A lot of rock classics were done by guys who don´t have a clou about that.

-Study some music theory. today, everything is available at your fingertips.

-Or: become a "Beatmaker"

*S.

[Stromkraft]

Without that groundwork it's all just pretending IMO, because there's never a way to figure out the rest of the song from the first few mysterious chords. If a beginner wants to make magic they better learn the basic spells.

Nah, that's just plain wrong. I made 2 (and 3) chord songs way before I knew what I was doing. Some of the greatest records of electronic dance music have been made by people that knew nothing about music theory and therefore mixed stuff in a way they shouldn't have according to people believing that music theory means you stay in one key (hint: this is not true). They used their ears and their taste. How it sounds will always be more important than why it sounds that way.

Deciding which key, if that is at all necessary, is actually not rocket science as music is in more people's DNA than you may first realize. Take a look at this classic TED clip of Bobby McFerrin illustrating people's natural musicality at the World Science Festivall in 2009. All people need to do is to trust themselves more. For determining the key if you allow yourself to trust your musicality is about learning methodology and certain tools rather than every detail there is to know about notes.

[Angstrom]

Beginners can just jam around and that's just fine. Slowly learning what sounds good.
But that is not what you said. " choose 2 chords then find out what key they are in."

My answer was specifically in response to that. My response was that's not so easy for a beginner. SPECIFICALLY "find out which key these are in.."
MY REASON : was that beginners can find nice chords which go together which are not in a key at all, because they use borrowed chords. So saying " choose 2 chords then find out what key they are in." is going to require more knowledge.

now you say

...people believing that music theory means you stay in one key (hint: this is not true).

YES, which is EXACTLY THE POINT I MADE IN MY POST.
Exactly what I said . Exactly the reason .Beginners land on complex stuff beginners can find nice chords which go together which are not in a key at all, because they use borrowed chords from parallel keys

So they will need a bit more knowledge to decipher whats going on. SPECIFICALLY TO " choose 2 chords then find out what key they are in." is going to require more than intuition.

That is very different from what you are now saying. Which is "everyone is naturally musical" and so can intuit applicable knowledge . MY POINT was borrowed chords and inversions make that too difficult to complete.

That Bobby McFerrin thing is fatally flawed and I'm amazed people dont spot the logical flaw.
Every human has been exposed to music in common formats such as Nursery rhymes like "Frère Jacques" which bake them in.
When he sings the first 3 notes of the scale he establishes a scale framework we all RECOGNIZE AS FAMILIAR. Its not DNA its repetition.
We just don't realise we have heard that scale as a basic melody for all our lives and he points it out.

He ought to say :"This is a common scale you have all heard over 20,000 times, look how familiar you are with it you can complete the sequence".
It's like completing the sentence "Baby you can drive my ..."
it's not DNA which allows the completion.
it is learning.

[SuburbanThug]

I like to just noodle around. I'll find a few notes that make a cool riff or chord or baseline and then exclude the notes in the octave that don't make sense with what I came up with. This establishes the key I'm working in.