Digital DJ license - an absolute farce! Read this!!

[robin]

What about downloadable mixes etc? .

The BPI class this as piracy if you have downloadable dj mixes available on your website.

I speak from experience.

Robin, can you give us more infos on that ? What happened to you ?

well i don't want to go into too much detail but we had dj mixes on a website and as we were trying to promote the music being played we did the right thing and had tracklistings for every mix (so if people liked the music they could go out and buy it). the site was non-profit, free downloads no adverts etc. the BPI got in touch and told us to shut it down. which we duly did.

the kind of music being played in these mixes is promoted by djs playing it (if you disagree then i'm not sure what planet you are on!) but that only works if the tunes are identified. obviously the BPI hold a different view.

if you host mixes don't put the tracklistings up there.

[Chris J]

I see. Did they know you were based in the UK ?

[robin]

I see. Did they know you were based in the UK ?

yep

[Pandamonium]

Everyyone else has to pay to use music that doesnt belong to them commercially, why shouldnt DJs?

There are two payments already, when you purchase the music and royalties when it is played (the second one is very flawed in reality)
.

Like it says on the copyright warning on most commercial recordings, it is for PERSONAL use only. When you buy a CD in a shop you are effectively buying a license to listen to the music yourself. Using it in your own compositions to play in nightclubs to hundreds of people is not personal use, and there needs to be a way for artists to be compensated for the use of their work in this way . You are right in your second point, the second method of royalty collection when your music is played IS flawed, thats why there needs to be a better method of collecting revenue when an artists music is used publicly for comercial use.

[Pandamonium]

it's great to know that it goes to the record labels. But that's where it stops, out of experience I know that most of the time artists don't get the money when it's "little" money

What a cliche!
Ive signed an awful lot of cheques to artists, of course, the ones that don't sell any CDs are always the ones that complain the loudest that they didnt get paid. If these guys had to pay back all the money that the label lost by having faith in the artist and risking money on them, (which of course they DON'T have to), maybe they would have someting to gripe about. I know first hand how painful it is to have enough faith in an artist to risk 30 grand, release a CD and then have the band decide due to personal differences in the band they arent really "in the right mindset" to tour or promote the album. There are 2 sides to most stories .

[Komplex]

Everyyone else has to pay to use music that doesnt belong to them commercially, why shouldnt DJs?

There are two payments already, when you purchase the music and royalties when it is played (the second one is very flawed in reality)
.

Like it says on the copyright warning on most commercial recordings, it is for PERSONAL use only. When you buy a CD in a shop you are effectively buying a license to listen to the music yourself. Using it in your own compositions to play in nightclubs to hundreds of people is not personal use, and there needs to be a way for artists to be compensated for the use of their work in this way . You are right in your second point, the second method of royalty collection when your music is played IS flawed, thats why there needs to be a better method of collecting revenue when an artists music is used publicly for comercial use.

I can't argue that first part realy, cus I agree hehe. But how does the "license" address money going to the RIGHT people (artists/copyright owners) and not the string of middle men?

[Hedroom]

Like it says on the copyright warning on most commercial recordings, it is for PERSONAL use only. When you buy a CD in a shop you are effectively buying a license to listen to the music yourself. Using it in your own compositions to play in nightclubs to hundreds of people is not personal use, and there needs to be a way for artists to be compensated for the use of their work in this way ...

Yes yes yes. But you're missing the point.

Why the arbitrary distinction between digital DJ and traditional DJ based purely on the format being used?

The venues are already paying the performance license, hence the artists are getting paid. Why are laptop DJs paying twice?

[Chris J]

The venues are already paying the performance license, hence the artists are getting paid. Why are laptop DJs paying twice?

absolutely, that's the question in its most direct form

[Pandamonium]

Why the arbitrary distinction between digital DJ and traditional DJ based purely on the format being used?

The venues are already paying the performance license, hence the artists are getting paid. Why are laptop DJs paying twice?

Good point, I agree that both Digital DJ and tradional DJ should both pay similar amounts, but I believe (and no suprise most DJs will disagree) that it should be considerably more than it is now to encourage venues to put on real live artists rather than just guys playing/manipulation/remixing recorded performances of real musicians. How would you feel if you were a musician with 20 years training, you just spend big $$$ recording an album, but you can't get to perform it live, because the venue can get a DJ to play the CD and act like HE is doing something very hard for WAY less $$. A lot of venues put on DJs simply because it's cheaper than real musicians, it's really the audience being robbed here. If DJs had to pay a fair amount for the music of other people they are profiting from then that fee would have to be passed on to the venue, which may make real musicians seem more of an attractive proposition and put musicians and DJS on more of a level playing field, oh well, it's a dream .

Unfortunately, more often than not the venues DON'T pay license fees, and what about outdoor raves and warehouse partys? I'll bet the organisers of them arent queing up to pay their PPCA fees

Not sure about collecting agencies in other countries but in my experience PPCA and APRA in Australia are astonishingly good at getting the money they collect to the right people.

[Hedroom]

Interesting points pandemonium.

And I for one love live acts so I'm not about to disagree with you there.

However, a significant proportion of DJs are playing electronic music. This is more often than not produced in a very artificial studio environment. There is not always a live equivalent, though people still want to hear the music. Also, club culture has always revolved a lot around DJs (though this is changing - in my opinion for the best).

My point is that I don't think booking a DJ is necessarily a "poor man's live act". People book DJs, not because they are cheaper (and I can assure you from an insider perspective that the top flight DJs who pull the crowds in charge a lot more than your typical live act), but because people want to hear music of lots of different styles (or even within a specific style) by different artists, selected and manipulated by someone who's taste in music they respect.

I am playing devil's advocate here, however, as I do find the extent to which DJs are revered and producers are not quite absurd. Thankfully, I think the tables are changing now we have software like Live which make performing live electronic music more of a reality.

Either way... we are digressing

[shredded]

SUCKERZ!!!! You think these people are working for the artists. This is the polar opposite of file-sharing programs with a common denominator: somebody else is getting paid for the hard work of the artist. I personally think all this crap is anal as hell and the more I hear about this retarded copyright war the more UN-involved I want to be with contemporary music in general. I find myself listening to less and less music lately because there is so much GREED in music nowadays; it KILLS THE FUN OF SIMPLY ENJOYING A SONG. I think to myself: this is cool, but people make way too big a deal about a buch of bleeps, bloops, and drum snippets. Everyone is taking themselves way too seriously, and the REAL artists are the ones who will suffer in the end, as usual, as they get caught in the crossfire of all this political BS and never get a chance to just MAKE FUCKING MUSIC AND ENJOY THE ART AND ENJOY SHARING THEIR CREATIONS WITH AN OPEN MINDED AUDIENCE. Notice its a bunch of NON-TALENTED SUCKERS WHO ARE JEALOUS THAT THEY HAVE NO SKILLS AND JUMP ON THE WHOLE DRM BANDWAGON TO COMPENSATE FOR THEIR NON_TALENT CUZ ALL THEY KNOW HOW TO DO IS SPIN AT WEDDINGS AND MAKE MONEY LIKE A F**KIN 9-5 JOB, go get a real job!!!! I'ts all F**KING GAY as hell. I have been clubbing and "raving" since I was 16, for like 14 years and all I see is another nail in the coffin for DJ culture and the dance music. I grew up listening to mixtapes and mix CD's as well as jamming to DJ's playing other artist's music, as I'm sure many Ableton user's have. It's going to get to the point where ever club and party is going to have some record company spy taking notes and demanding that they get paid for every snare and basskick sample an artist plays= the end of cut and paste culture. And I'll bet most of the money DOESN'T go to the artists. Suckers. So eager to go along with this bland, mundane BS. Many people out there are doing it simply to get paid and laid. That's OK as a side benefit, but it shouldn't be the only thing motivating an artist. If it is, you are NO artist. You never were. Besides, the true artist KNOWS that he/she CREATES NOT, it is the breath of the DIVINE that flows through them, they are but a vessel, like Krishna's FLUTE!!!!

[shredded]

hambone1

"I think this is great! "

give me a break

http://www.partyup.co.uk/

HAHA you have no comprehension of what electronic music culture is about, this kind of crap (PPL) is no good. If you think it's such a great idea then go ahead and send them your $$$$$. Better yet, send ME your money and I'LL write up a DJ licence for ya' HAHAHA

[shredded]

Yo, I looked through the site again, a little more extensively and I swear i felt like throwing up. If this is music then I want to poke out my eardrums......................Yo, I'm dropping out altogether; when music stops being a commodity (property of some rich guy in an office somewhere) and starts being a gift again, wake me up.

[elemental]

the true artist KNOWS that he/she CREATES NOT, it is the breath of the DIVINE that flows through them, they are but a vessel, like Krishna's FLUTE!!!!

That is very true. Pity so few people realise this, attaching their ego to their creations.

This whole topic reminds me why I enjoy being part of the underground scene i'm involved in. No-one makes a living out of it. Most tunes played are dubplates/cd-r's, and slowly but surely stuff is getting released. But we all do it for the love ... Producers, DJ's, label owners, promoters. I think it keeps music real, and healthy, and allows for true artistic expression.

[robin]

the true artist KNOWS that he/she CREATES NOT, it is the breath of the DIVINE that flows through them, they are but a vessel, like Krishna's FLUTE!!!!

That is very true. Pity so few people realise this, attaching their ego to their creations.

This whole topic reminds me why I enjoy being part of the underground scene i'm involved in. No-one makes a living out of it. Most tunes played are dubplates/cd-r's, and slowly but surely stuff is getting released. But we all do it for the love ... Producers, DJ's, label owners, promoters. I think it keeps music real, and healthy, and allows for true artistic expression.

i agree with both your opinions here.