instrument racks/chains for large live performance sets

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thermalrust
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:30 am

instrument racks/chains for large live performance sets

Post by thermalrust » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:00 pm

Hi, I am currently trying to figure out an efficient way to change between chains of instrument racks as I change between songs during live performance. For the past few dozen shows, I have used a system that involves using each song's instrument/effect racks on a chain with a section where the chains blend, so I can get a smooth transition between "song A" and "song B" while playing drum and synth clips from each as I transition. This is done by having the chain selectors mapped to MultiMap Max For Live devices, which are mapped to a knob on a MIDI controller. I find the CPU hit is a little high since I run between 8-15 tracks per song, but it is generally manageable even with Resolume Arena doing live visual projections as well. Here is what it looks like:

Image

However, this is quite limiting as it is better suited to a setlist that doesn't change very much. If I want to go from "song A" to "song D" that night, I also have to scroll through the instruments and effects of "song B" and "C" which may not sound appropriate. It also runs with about 20% CPU at idle on a top of the line MBP from 2016 (pre-touch bar version) and a few percent lower on a PC with i7-6700HQ. I thought when the chain selector is in a zone which does not have other chains active, that the devices are off? I am trying to find a way which will use less CPU if possible, especially for sets with more songs and more flexibility.


Last night I tried a new idea: having all chains in the same zone, but mapping each chain's volume and the speaker switch to a fader on a MIDI controller, so I can fade up all the instruments of "song A" and if I want to transition to "song D" I can just change the appropriate faders while triggering clips for the song I want to change to. I thought that by having the speaker switch mapped as well, it would disable the instruments of any chains whose fader is down at zero, and save some CPU. Sonically, this works very well, but the CPU hit is actually much worse! It was often in the 30 or 40% range on the MBP when idle. When playing audio, it was in the 50s, and sometimes spiked to 70s and dropped out.

Is there something I'm doing wrong here? Should I be mapping the on-off switches of every single device in every instrument rack chain to the faders as well to make sure they are truly off when their fader is down to save the CPU usage?


I realize this is a more difficult setup than bouncing or freezing instruments into audio clips, but I can't think of a flexible way to smoothly blend between different songs and their individual elements when using bounced audio since only one clip can be played in a track at the same time. And I don't want to simply DJ partially completed versions of my songs, it would be nice to continue to play keys on an instrument from time to time, or experiment with using the kick patterns of one song, the hats of another, the synths of another or adjust a parameter on my Push while remaining in key as these setups allow. There are posts on here of people using rack chains to have 64 or even 128 instances of VST in a single rack with only about 1 or 2% CPU usage when idle... how can something anywhere close to this be achieved? I do not have/use Omnisphere or Kontact or any big, hungry VSTs, mostly stock, a few Max for Live synths such as Bass. Not all songs use all of my 15 tracks either, some have only about 8 tracks.

Really could use some help here!

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: instrument racks/chains for large live performance sets

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:17 pm

This is a very interesting topic. I'm not that far myself as my main obstacle at the moment is varying external hardware.

Have you looked at the PP-Labs - PPTC - trackPresets over at Isotonik?
Make some music!

TomKern
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:08 pm

Re: instrument racks/chains for large live performance sets

Post by TomKern » Mon May 01, 2017 7:59 am

thermalrust wrote: However, this is quite limiting as it is better suited to a setlist that doesn't change very much. If I want to go from "song A" to "song D" that night, I also have to scroll through the instruments and effects of "song B" and "C" which may not sound appropriate.
Just use dummy clips for Songs "A", "B", "C" and "D" which have the precise chain selector setting stored as automation. Then triggering the clips will change the chain selector directly to the setting you need.
It also runs with about 20% CPU at idle on a top of the line MBP from 2016 (pre-touch bar version) and a few percent lower on a PC with i7-6700HQ. I thought when the chain selector is in a zone which does not have other chains active, that the devices are off?
You need to assign the on/offs of the devices in the chain to the same macro as your chain selector, such that the range is set so that they are only on when you are in the zone of that track.

This way even with overlapping zones only max two chains effects will be on at the same time.

thermalrust
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:30 am

Re: instrument racks/chains for large live performance sets

Post by thermalrust » Mon May 01, 2017 7:05 pm

TomKern wrote:
thermalrust wrote: You need to assign the on/offs of the devices in the chain to the same macro as your chain selector, such that the range is set so that they are only on when you are in the zone of that track.

This way even with overlapping zones only max two chains effects will be on at the same time.
Ahh, I'll try this with my old method (the screencapped one) and see if it frees up any CPU usage at all.

So I should be mapping all of the individual device on/off switches in a chain to be on/off?
What if I rack them once again and then just map the on/off for that rack (so the mapping would not be filled with hundreds of devices that need to be set as on/off)?
The speaker switch at the chain mixer section of the rack doesn't actually disable anything? Is it just a mute, processing audio in a sort of "stand by" mode?


Sorry for all the questions, it seems like this will make a difference and I'll try it today. When mapping the speaker switch of each chain to the volume faders on my MIDI controller so that the speaker was off if the fader was down didn't seem to relieve the strain.

TomKern
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:08 pm

Re: instrument racks/chains for large live performance sets

Post by TomKern » Tue May 02, 2017 7:42 am

thermalrust wrote: So I should be mapping all of the individual device on/off switches in a chain to be on/off?
What if I rack them once again and then just map the on/off for that rack (so the mapping would not be filled with hundreds of devices that need to be set as on/off)?
Yes that works too
The speaker switch at the chain mixer section of the rack doesn't actually disable anything? Is it just a mute, processing audio in a sort of "stand by" mode?
Exactly

thermalrust
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:30 am

Re: instrument racks/chains for large live performance sets

Post by thermalrust » Sun May 14, 2017 12:02 am

So I've come up with a template that maps each track's chain volumes and device on/off switches for each song (not speaker switch) to faders on a MIDI controller so that the devices and chains for songs not currently being used are not wasting CPU. The template has up to 16 tracks color and name coded so I know which are for percussion, which are audio and which are synths. Not all are used in every song. It's pretty taxing when fading up 2 or 3 chains simultaneously.. seems to work okay and would probably be reliable live but I have several more songs to plug into this template. Currently about 9 GB of RAM is used with only Live open.. I'm worried that this will not be scalable to too many more songs. I'm not sure if introducing more chains will occupy more RAM, even if they are dormant and off?

Especially since I do visuals with Resolume live too, and even though that uses less than 1 GB of RAM I am hitting the occasional audio dropout and am trying to find a safe level of activity for both programs to work together on this top of the line Macbook Pro. Going to try the exact same template on my PC with better video card and comparable processor to see if it handles things better.


There must be some sort of better way to optimize live instruments without bouncing too much down?

TomKern
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:08 pm

Re: instrument racks/chains for large live performance sets

Post by TomKern » Sun May 14, 2017 4:49 pm

Well using lots of RAM usually means many samples or sample based instruments that you chose to load into RAM.

If you have a SSD, that is usually not necessary. So you can turn it off (in Sampler/Simpler for instance and in audio clips there is an extra button for this)

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