Editable Crossfader Curve

treyb · Post by **treyb** » Sat Jun 14, 2003 8:17 pm

If you check out most DJ mixers they have editable crossfader curves. You can change the slope to fit the two tracks you're mixing or for scratching tricks.

I can't just leave the fader in Live in the middle because it plays too much of the A and B sides and sends my audio into the red. I should be able to fade between two tracks of equal volume and never have that happen.

This should be pretty easy to implement. So please do it!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 12:25 pm

what you are shooting for is against the basic principals of sound. Two or more audio sources (live clips) playing together are summed together to some degree when they go out the master. So individual Live clips that are not in the red or clipping by themselves, when combined together in the master out will cause the master to have a higher dB level that any of the indivdual tracks. Thus, the master is often too hot at the default master fader level. The solution--bring the master fader down a bit to keep an eye on it. Another solution would be to have a limiter on your master out to avoid any signal spikes that would result in clipping an gawdawful digital distortion. SO to recap, your two tracks of equal volume, when played together, actually have a volume with higher dB levels than either individual track--this is a physical principal of sound that you can't change (and though they are awesome, not even the ableton team can), so the best you can do is recognize it and figure out the workaround that suits you.

Ryan

monolake. · Post by **monolake.** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 8:30 pm

well, it`s not that there is only one possible curve for doing a crossfade.
At some point we propably will offer a range of different curves or a continuos paramter for changing the bahaviour .

a curve which might be cool for some hip/hop cutting style may not what you want if you need a smooth long crossfade between two ambient loops.

The current curve is a compromise which keeps the volume of a track constant till the center point and then goes down to zero. This behaviour works well for a lot of typical DJ situations, since it`s not loosing power in the center, but it does not serve as a linear power crossfade for blending two ambient loops together.

If someone here is using the crossfader regulary i would appreciate comments regarding the following issues: - do you use it with HW controlers? how exactly do you use it ? feel free to write to [email protected] or continue the discussion here!

Cheers, robert / ableton.

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out now: monolake: linear 12" vinyl.
http.//www.monolake.de/linear.html
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globalgoon · Post by **globalgoon** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 1:15 am

i use the x-fade loads when i'm making tracks. i mainly use it on percussion. For example, i might have a main beat assigned to A and a looping percussive fill (maybe looping around 3 beats) assigned to B. using a harware fader (peavey 16 fader) i can get good variations within the rhythm quickly, and they sound nice and natural too. the x-fade is my favourite feature in live at the moment.

p.s. i'd love to have more than 1 x-fade though (a-b, c-d, e-f , g-h)

noviomatic · Post by **noviomatic** » Mon Aug 04, 2003 9:27 pm

I use the xfader to death

Allows for very smooth transitions between sounds.

I attach it to a fader on my PC-1600 or a dial on my Drehbank....

I'd really really REALLY like to see more crossfaders inside!!!!! A-Z instead of A-B would be a good thing to start with.

You know what: I'll make this a seperate topic on the wishlist forum

kabuki · Post by **kabuki** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 7:20 pm

More Curve choices, PLEASE...

Thanks, Abs!

montrealbreaks · Post by **montrealbreaks** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:25 am

I use the crossfader for slapping in and out the wet/dry signal from my sends. All the channels sends are "pre" fader. I assign all channels to A on the crossfader, and all effect send busses to B. Quite fun.

An adjustable curve would be nice... I would probably use it more for other things if that were the case. Due to the clipping issues, I never keep it in the centre.

Regarding Ryan's point about the summing of audio signals, you've hit the nail on the head. It is because of this invariable law of physics that a lot of cross faders on high quality mixers have the option to offer a 3 to 6 decibel "dip" in the centre, to compensate for this. I think that such an option would be wonderful!

L8er
Montrealbreaks

Spiralgroove · Post by **Spiralgroove** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:16 am

I think the crossfader could definitely stand some refinement in a future release of live, i would definitely love for it to truely simulate a real dj mixer...
a mouse just doesnt really cut it...

radder · Post by **radder** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:53 am

I use the crossfader for slapping in and out the wet/dry signal from my sends. All the channels sends are "pre" fader. I assign all channels to A on the crossfader, and all effect send busses to B. Quite fun.

Hey, has anyone posted that to the "tips and tricks" forum? good stuff!

radder

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 1:26 pm

Please make more editable cross fader curves. The current one is difficult to use for certain types of music. I also read the Allen & Heath X-Zone mixer can map it's crossfader to Live's and it says Live will follow the X-Zone's curve setting. Does anyone know if this is true?

montrealbreaks · Post by **montrealbreaks** » Thu Feb 19, 2004 12:32 am

As far as Allen and Heath cross faders go, I used to own a Xone-464. (Alas, I sold it, 10 rack spaces is just too much to haul around to gigs...)

I didn't know you could do that with the Xones. The Xone 464 (and I assume the Xone 62 also) has a Serial Bus looking connector on the back that I never used. Could this be what you're talking about?

Unfortunately, one of my laments about the Xone 464 was that it DIDN'T have a variable cross fader curve - so if you could control Live from the Xone, it wouldn't do you a heck of a lot of good for your purposes.

However I truly doubt you even CAN control software from the Xone - if the Xone could act as a controller you would think that A&H would have been bragging about having such a fantastic device. I think that the port on the rear was for linking multiple Xones together so they could share Aux sends and busses etc. Where didja read this?

L8er
Montrealbreaks[/quote]

Mbazzy · Post by **Mbazzy** » Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:48 am

I think he's referring to the Xone:92 an this page on the site : http://www.allen-heath.com/xone/midi_apps_ableton.html ...

As far as I always understood only the filter section [ and crossfader ] doubles as midi controller ... there are various threads on this one here [ tthink a search for Richie Hawtin will yield best results ] ... but at 1500 Euro ....

From the site :
MIDI output from VCF 1+2, crossfader, LFO (MIDI clock), dedicated data control and start/stop button

kabuki · Post by **kabuki** » Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:06 pm

montrealbreaks wrote:Regarding Ryan's point about the summing of audio signals, you've hit the nail on the head. It is because of this invariable law of physics that a lot of cross faders on high quality mixers have the option to offer a 3 to 6 decibel "dip" in the centre, to compensate for this. I think that such an option would be wonderful!

L8er
Montrealbreaks

Here here!

I second THAT!

BETTER CURVES PLEASE!!!

montrealbreaks · Post by **montrealbreaks** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:27 pm

Wow, I dindn`t know the Xone 92 could do that... My mistake!

That`s a damn fine machine...

L8er
Montrealbreaks

http://www.allen-heath.com/xone/midi_apps.html

Editable Crossfader Curve

Editable Crossfader Curve

Xfader

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