Crashes and Bugs Poll

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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Have you experienced the following

Multiple Crashes Per Day
4
57%
Drop In Instrument Volumes
2
29%
Premature Sample Ending via Fade Out Tool
1
14%
 
Total votes: 7

lucasdefuego
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Crashes and Bugs Poll

Post by lucasdefuego » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:21 am

I love this software but I was curious as to why it crashes so much? I use both Maschine and Ableton and I have to say Maschine is much more stable. I have owned Ableton for about 2 months, and it has crashed more times than Maschine has in a year. It also has very slow loading times and can be very laggy even though my CPU bar never goes above 25%, and I never have other application running while using Live. I don't do anything fancy, just production and sound design, then I bounce to Logic for mixing and mastering.

Bugs...

I have also noticed that sometimes instruments will randomly drop in volume through out a clip. When I go to check velocity parameters, they are all equal, and the drop in volume IS NOT displayed in the volume output. Sometimes I will have to go in and re-draw the midi notes, sometimes that fixes it, but sometimes not.

Another thing I have noticed is when using the fade out tool in simpler, the sample will be cut short prematurely. Imagine this.... You have an open hi-hat and want to fade out 2 seconds... but instead of it fading out, the sample output drops completely half way through the fade out (1 second.)

Anyone have these problems?

login
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Re: Crashes and Bugs Poll

Post by login » Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:52 am

It is not normal to have that many crashes, it might be related to some plug ins. Live for m,e is very stable except with the Roland cloud Plug ins, they crash live just upon closing the GUI.

In the past I also have had some plug ins misbehave, but NI has always been some of the most reliable ones.

Also M4L can use a lot of CPU and I have experimented some crashes because of it.

But I think you should contact support and see what they can find, send them your crash reports.

jestermgee
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Re: Crashes and Bugs Poll

Post by jestermgee » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:54 am

Hesitant to get involved with such a new player and so few usable details but here goes...

- What is a window of how many times you say Live will crash? So it crashes "more" than Maschine but what does that mean? How often would you say it does crash? and how often does Maschine crash? I typically don't see many crashes with any software I use.
- What are some specs of your PC (Is it Win/Mac/Potato)?
- Audio Interface?
- Live version?
- 32 or 64 bit?
- What instruments are loaded when it crashes? What are you actually doing when it crashes?
- Have you sent any crash reports to Ableton and asked what the deal is? I have had great success and solved problems in the past with some outdated plugins I was using due to their assistance
I have also noticed that sometimes instruments will randomly drop in volume through out a clip.
- What instruments and how do you notice them "drop" in volume throughout a clip?
- What sound or patch is loaded and do you have any devices on your track (effects) or automation?
and the drop in volume IS NOT displayed in the volume output.
- What does that actually mean? You can "hear" a drop in volume but the meters are saying the opposite?
- How are you listening to this? Headphones/Speakers/tin cans etc?
- Have you done a scientific test of this and rendered a piece of audio to analyse to in fact confirm that it is the case and not your ears or equipment?
Anyone have these problems?
I cannot say I have experienced any of those issues other than the occasional crash which is often related to a VST plugin.

A poll is simply not needed. I think firstly before polling users for their input you first learn how to request support with some adequate details of the issues or at the very least details of your software and operating system. As a paying customer you have direct access to ableton support and can send a request through. They have always been good for any of my issues with an answer within just a few days.

Stromkraft
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Re: Crashes and Bugs Poll

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:09 am

lucasdefuego wrote:I love this software but I was curious as to why it crashes so much? I use both Maschine and Ableton and I have to say Maschine is much more stable. I have owned Ableton for about 2 months, and it has crashed more times than Maschine has in a year. It also has very slow loading times and can be very laggy even though my CPU bar never goes above 25%, and I never have other application running while using Live. I don't do anything fancy, just production and sound design, then I bounce to Logic for mixing and mastering.

Bugs...

I have also noticed that sometimes instruments will randomly drop in volume through out a clip. When I go to check velocity parameters, they are all equal, and the drop in volume IS NOT displayed in the volume output. Sometimes I will have to go in and re-draw the midi notes, sometimes that fixes it, but sometimes not.

Another thing I have noticed is when using the fade out tool in simpler, the sample will be cut short prematurely. Imagine this.... You have an open hi-hat and want to fade out 2 seconds... but instead of it fading out, the sample output drops completely half way through the fade out (1 second.)

Anyone have these problems?
Where's the None of the above! option?

Not even once in daily use since 4.5 years and while I've had a few periods of bugs biting me I've persisted in fixing the problem myself, with and without the Ableton support team. I say that it's abnormal to have daily crashes and it's should be fixable. That may involve updating hardware and abandoning certain plug-ins as well as getting rid of all pirated shit, if any.
Make some music!

marlonzuri
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Re: Crashes and Bugs Poll

Post by marlonzuri » Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:23 pm

I mean I have often multiple crashes per day but its almost always plugin related. I would argue that Ableton is a very stable daw, I have thoroughly used Logic and Fl studio, both of which crashed far more frequently.

Angstrom
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Re: Crashes and Bugs Poll

Post by Angstrom » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:39 pm

None of the above.

Coupe70
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Re: Crashes and Bugs Poll

Post by Coupe70 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:44 am

Where is the button for 'no problems' ?
Phongemeinschaft (Live-ElectroJazz / NuJazz)
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Live 9 (32Bit), HP DV7, i5 2,53GHz, 8 GB RAM, Win7 (64Bit)

lucasdefuego
Posts: 4
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Re: Crashes and Bugs Poll

Post by lucasdefuego » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:53 am

Thanks for all the replies!

jestermgee....

[quote]What is a window of how many times you say Live will crash? So it crashes "more" than Maschine but what does that mean? How often would you say it does crash? and how often does Maschine crash? I typically don't see many crashes with any software I use./quote]

- It will crash anywhere from 1-5 times a week, depending on how much I use it. Yesterday it crashed on me 4 times during a span of 8 hours. Honestly I can't remember the last time Maschine crashed it's such a rare occasion. Maybe once a month, when I was using it primarily.

[quote]What are some specs of your PC (Is it Win/Mac/Potato)?/quote]

- 2016 macbook pro 16gb ram, 2.5 ghz dual core 7th gen, 256GB SSD

[quote]- Audio Interface? /quote]

KOMPLETE AUDIO 6 by Native instruments.

[quote]- Live version?/quote]

- Live Suite 9.7.3 64 bit

[quote]- What instruments are loaded when it crashes? What are you actually doing when it crashes?/quote]

- 99% I only work with drum samples and bass samples and use a template using a drum rack with each pad containing an instrument rack with all my favorite kick snares, ect, via chain assignment. Then another instrument rack for all my favorite 808 samples. All together I probably have around 150 samples loaded, Which I know is adding to the loading times, but what's weird is sometime it can take up to 30-40 seconds to load! lol first world problems.....

- There are a few different scenarios when it crashes. It happens sometimes from just loading a previously saved live set, loading a 3rd part plug in, or clicking through random presets on sound toys, which is what i'm doing 90% of the time, only for melodies though. I've never have more than 12- 13 tracks going at one time. 3rd party plugins I use are fab filter pro q 2, izotope trash 2, and soundtoys. But soundtoys most of the time. Sometimes I layer ableton synths with samples but, nothing more than that.

[quote]- Have you sent any crash reports to Ableton and asked what the deal is? I have had great success and solved problems in the past with some outdated plugins I was using due to their assistance/quote]

- I have send my most recent crash reports to them and will do so from now on that it's getting so bad. I sent a message to them along with the crash reports.

[quote]- What instruments and how do you notice them "drop" in volume throughout a clip?/quote]

- My drums samples are what drop in volume, most recently a snare, for example, the first two snare hits will be fine, but the third and fifth will consistently drop half way in volume. Its pretty noticeable. I notice them with my own two ears... I'm just using my pre loaded instrument racks, no devices, no automation.

[quote]- What does that actually mean? You can "hear" a drop in volume but the meters are saying the opposite?/quote]

- I can hear it, but the volume meters react as if there is no drop in volume, as if theres is no difference from snare 2 than there is from snare 3 and 5..... even though there is

[quote]- How are you listening to this? Headphones/Speakers/tin cans etc?/quote]

- I use nearfeild monitors and beyerdynamic DR 880 PRO

[quote]- Have you done a scientific test of this and rendered a piece of audio to analyse to in fact confirm that it is the case and not your ears or equipment?/quote]

- No, even though that's a great idea, the drop in volume is so noticeable I never questioned my own intuition, I just get pissed off and try to forget about it, or redraw the notes in. But I'll definitely do that now!

[quote]A poll is simply not needed. /quote]

- Probably not, oh well.....


BTW I use push 2 and don't have any pirated plugins!

Stromkraft
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Re: Crashes and Bugs Poll

Post by Stromkraft » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:42 am

lucasdefuego wrote: KOMPLETE AUDIO 6 by Native instruments.
First of all, can you please fix your quote tags? It's a mess to read, so I gave up. The end tags are supposed to be started with "[", like this (without the spaces) [ / quote ]

I think you should try another audio interface. For some reason a few years back a bout of serious issues ended at once when getting rid of a Native Instruments audio interface and going RME instead. Just like that. Bam!

At least investigate updated drivers and firmware.

That being said a friend of mine do have the same interface as you and have no issues whatsoever. I don't like how NI treated my report either, so that was a strong factor in abandoning their hardware. I now hesitate to get their keyboards and a Maschine. I love NI software though.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Make some music!

jestermgee
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Re: Crashes and Bugs Poll

Post by jestermgee » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:58 am

Yes, please fix your quote tags as it took me some reading. Just copy it to a notepad and search /quote and replace [/quote then paste back into the forum

Crashes that often are completely abnormal and should not be considered the software itself but something else. Live can crash like most software and has done on me causing frustration every now and then but it's honestly a rare thing.

I wouldn't suggest buying a new Audio interface just yet unless I was certain that was the issue and something that stands out in what you have said is Live will sometimes crash when you load a set which has happened to me a few times.

A few years ago I created a nice orchestral template that was pretty loaded with devices and effects and on a HDD took close to 5 minutes to load (14GB memory). I never really had an issue loading it initially but when I created a track and saved it I opened the next day and bam, crash on open. Tried again, and again and finally after a lot of frustration it opened. I continued, saved as a new file and had the same issues next day. I noticed it crashed when it was loading an East West library so assumed it was east west and even removed the VST and it DID load...

Turned out that it was not east west but Eventide Ultrareverb that was the cause. I removed that from my VST folder and the project loaded every time so I removed it and replaced with another... Eventide updated it some months later and now it's fine.

My money would be on possibly a plugin somewhere. I would recommend while you wait to try and remove anything that is not a live plugin for the moment and test. If everything seems to work then start adding plugins back. The number of samples you have detailed is not much. Ableton should be able to see from the reports what has caused the crash and advise. Let us know if you manage to nail it tho.

lucasdefuego
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Re: Crashes and Bugs Poll

Post by lucasdefuego » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:35 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
First of all, can you please fix your quote tags? It's a mess to read, so I gave up. The end tags are supposed to be started with "[", like this (without the spaces) [ / quote ]
Haha thanks for the patience guys total newb here! I was planning on getting the UA Appollo so eventually I can let you guys know If I can notice a difference.


jestermgee wrote: A few years ago I created a nice orchestral template that was pretty loaded with devices and effects and on a HDD took close to 5 minutes to load (14GB memory). I never really had an issue loading it initially but when I created a track and saved it I opened the next day and bam, crash on open. Tried again, and again and finally after a lot of frustration it opened. I continued, saved as a new file and had the same issues next day. I noticed it crashed when it was loading an East West library so assumed it was east west and even removed the VST and it DID load...
Wow that's what I call patience haha. And Yes I feel like I'm having similar issues. My projects with my pre loaded template are either hit or miss when they want to load up...or crash. The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to realize I just need a faster computer if I don't want to deal with the loading times. My 2016 macbook pro is really fast at everything, except audio processing :( gonna get an iMac with 32GB RAM 3.5 GHZ QUAD processor. I think a lot of the lag issues have to do with my outdated dual core. Anyways I'm getting in touch with support. Appreciate the feedback!

jestermgee
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Re: Crashes and Bugs Poll

Post by jestermgee » Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:04 am

lucasdefuego wrote: Wow that's what I call patience haha. And Yes I feel like I'm having similar issues. My projects with my pre loaded template are either hit or miss when they want to load up...or crash. The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to realize I just need a faster computer if I don't want to deal with the loading times. My 2016 macbook pro is really fast at everything, except audio processing :( gonna get an iMac with 32GB RAM 3.5 GHZ QUAD processor. I think a lot of the lag issues have to do with my outdated dual core. Anyways I'm getting in touch with support. Appreciate the feedback!
When you work with software and computers, you need to have some patience. I've used various DAWs and trackers for 18+ years now and worked with computers close to 30 years so I have learned to approach things as if the issue is something I have done and reverse engineer the problem. Also, when you spend a large amount of time creating a template or working on a project you can't just accept it won't load.

In regards to making things load faster, an SSD drive is what you need for large library's. I have 2 SSD for VST and sample/project content and another for the OS so what use to take 5 minutes to load now takes less than a minute. A good fast multi-core CPU is needed to run powerful synths or lots of tracks and a good amount of ram is for loading large projects and plugins into memory.

If you are working with a dual core processor that could be part of slow performance, it will limit the number of tracks/synths you can run at a time. But if you do not have an Audio interface and are just using on-board audio then that can also contribute to poor performance with audio since that is more load the CPU has to process in real time.

Do your research and plan what you need to make the next step, set a budget then aim for that goal.

8E
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Re: Crashes and Bugs Poll

Post by 8E » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:16 pm

How is the poll valid if there is no option for no craches?
Look, if everyone experience craches in live music production it will mean death for Ableton.
For me it is rock solid, made in Germany.
MacBook Pro (15", Mid 2015), 2,5 GHz i7, 16GB RAM / OS X El C Live Suite 9.7.6 + Push 1

diegux
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Re: Crashes and Bugs Poll

Post by diegux » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:07 pm

Both maschine and live user here.
Ableton is rock solid, there must be something wrong on your side.
While the DAW has a lot of flaws, stability is not one of them.
100% reliable.
An SSD drive makes wonders in terms of performance, and at least for me, RME have been the best investment ever.

Good look, best

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