Live 10 upgrade path

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kitekrazy
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by kitekrazy » Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:05 am

DEEMUSIC wrote:My upgraded to Suite is $239 and I think the price is kind of high for an upgrade most DAW's are 100 to 149 and I see what they are giving with this upgraded and I'm impressed but I feel it is high and I like Live a lot, but I do have to consider Ableton doesn't upgrade as much as the other DAW's so I have to choose between Reason or Live and I feel I'm going to have to save some more penny to get Live I do have more fun with it I hope the price doesn't change before I get the money saved up.

As with Props they only charge $129 for every update. Last year I got for a limited time Sonar 4 Life for $199. Studio One always has a major sale. I think with the competition Live is being priced out of the market. I do love Live but the Suite upgrade pricing just doesn't work for me. When Izotope got some flack over their recent upgrade pricing they listened and dropped it a bit. They guys at Image Line mentioned that upgrade price is the price of some DAWs. You are not too far from getting Bitwig when they knock the price down. I guess we will have to wait for 3rd party vendors to offer sales.

Machinesworking
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by Machinesworking » Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:17 am

kitekrazy wrote:
DEEMUSIC wrote:My upgraded to Suite is $239 and I think the price is kind of high for an upgrade most DAW's are 100 to 149 and I see what they are giving with this upgraded and I'm impressed but I feel it is high and I like Live a lot, but I do have to consider Ableton doesn't upgrade as much as the other DAW's so I have to choose between Reason or Live and I feel I'm going to have to save some more penny to get Live I do have more fun with it I hope the price doesn't change before I get the money saved up.

As with Props they only charge $129 for every update. Last year I got for a limited time Sonar 4 Life for $199. Studio One always has a major sale. I think with the competition Live is being priced out of the market. I do love Live but the Suite upgrade pricing just doesn't work for me. When Izotope got some flack over their recent upgrade pricing they listened and dropped it a bit. They guys at Image Line mentioned that upgrade price is the price of some DAWs. You are not too far from getting Bitwig when they knock the price down. I guess we will have to wait for 3rd party vendors to offer sales.
Mostly we're not talking huge amounts of savings. Even Logic is $200 for every upgrade, my other DAW is Digital Performer and it's $199. Live Suite is expensive at $299, but regularly is on sale at about $240, and like people have mentioned Ableton do not upgrade to a full point version as often as the others do. If you really want to look at money grabs, look at Cubase and Pro Tools for upgrades and pricing schemes that drain you. NI with Komplete over the years has hit me harder than Ableton have and I skip a version of Komplete every time. Then there's Bitwig with their weird subscription or yearly upgrade path...

stringtapper
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by stringtapper » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:44 am

Machinesworking wrote:Mostly we're not talking huge amounts of savings. Even Logic is $200 for every upgrade, my other DAW is Digital Performer and it's $199. Live Suite is expensive at $299, but regularly is on sale at about $240, and like people have mentioned Ableton do not upgrade to a full point version as often as the others do. If you really want to look at money grabs, look at Cubase and Pro Tools for upgrades and pricing schemes that drain you. NI with Komplete over the years has hit me harder than Ableton have and I skip a version of Komplete every time. Then there's Bitwig with their weird subscription or yearly upgrade path...
Although this year I got into Komplete 11 for $199 just from owning Kontakt 5, the upgrade to which I paid for many years ago. That was a crazy no-brainer deal just for Reaktor 6 and some of the libraries like the Una Corda alone.

I was able to get up to Studio One 3 Professional by weaving my way up from the Artist version for only about $240 total over a couple of years. Personally, I like that some of these companies shift things around and give different people opportunities at different times.

I also like the flat rate schemes like Apple is doing with Logic. Apple's case is even more extreme though. These days I'm wondering how the Logic/Final Cut thing is going to play out on the App Store. I can't recall Apple ever deprecating any version of their own software on the App Store (e.g. GarageBand, Pages, Keynote, etc.). They just continually get updated, right? It will be interesting to see if they keep going with that or if we do eventually get a Logic/Final Cut XI cutoff and it's the flat rate again.

Anyway, this is OT, but deals come and go. Sometimes you get lucky. I just don't see the point in wasting the mental energy on feeling like I've been fucked over just because I don't happen to be the guy getting the great deal at the moment.
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pencilrocket
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by pencilrocket » Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:27 am

How much will new effects like LFO and Echo cost? I don't need 50GB of samples or synths. It's a waste of drive space and money for users like me.
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Stromkraft
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:28 am

pencilrocket wrote:How much will new effects like LFO and Echo cost? I don't need 50GB of samples or synths. It's a waste of drive space and money for users like me.
Echo is part of Standard (Update: Unfortunately not). LFO is part of MFL, which will be available separately. Update: The as per usual Standard + MFL won't work then. I own Suite 9 now, and cross-grading to Standard has no discount, so the difference is only 20€. Hardly worth fussing about, especially as I want MFL.

I was looking at getting a standard cross-upgrade from Suite for 20€, but then I'd have to get MFL separately.


What's really needed is to be able to remove the fluff that comes with native Suite from your installation.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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mr.adl
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by mr.adl » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:23 am

Stromkraft wrote:
pencilrocket wrote:How much will new effects like LFO and Echo cost? I don't need 50GB of samples or synths. It's a waste of drive space and money for users like me.
Echo is part of Standard.
Actually no: In the chart here "Echo" (as well as Pedal) is only in the Suite, not the Standart:
https://www.ableton.com/de/live/compare-editions/

Hermanus
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by Hermanus » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:41 am

when I upgraded live 8 suite to live 9 suite, I payed 119€

I was expecting not paying more than 149€ but without the pre-order discount the price for upgrading to live 10 suite is 249€

No OPERATOR upgrading. Ok for wavetable synth [though I own serum vst and it is rock solid, I can't wait to compare with this abe' one]

I subscribed to the live 10 beta and will see by myself...

I think it's a bit overpriced but will make my mind once I put my hands on this beta 10 ... if I got a confirmation email off course :lol:

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Stromkraft
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:45 am

mr.adl wrote:
Stromkraft wrote: Echo is part of Standard.
Actually no: In the chart here "Echo" (as well as Pedal) is only in the Suite, not the Standart:
https://www.ableton.com/de/live/compare-editions/
My bad. When I looked over that list a few days ago it hadn't been updated for 10 so I only looked at unique Suite features and missed they were for 9.
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Noxoreos
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by Noxoreos » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:53 pm

The Suite 9 to Suite 10 upgrade pricing also doesn't seem fair to me.

If I had Live 9 Standard and upgraded right now, the price would be 199€ to upgrade to Suite 9 and I'd get a free upgrade to Suite 10 to it.
But I have Suite 9 right now and the upgrade to Suite 10 also costs 199€ (with the discount of 20% already included).

That basically means that the upgrade from Live 9 Standard to Live 10 Suite costs exactly the same as Live 9 Suite to Live 10 Suite.

I'm not saying it's not worth it, but that's also not fair, because 9 Standard users get a lot more stuff than 9 Suite users for the same price.

Stromkraft
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:08 pm

Noxoreos wrote: If I had Live 9 Standard and upgraded right now, the price would be 199€ to upgrade to Suite 9 and I'd get a free upgrade to Suite 10 to it.
Where did you find this out?
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Noxoreos
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by Noxoreos » Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:26 pm

First, if you log out, you see the difference between buying Live 9 Standard and Suite is currently apart by 200€ (279 vs 479) and there is an info box above, that says free upgrade to "Live 10". Also I found the upgrade from Live 9 Standard to Live 9 Suite online for 199€.
A friend of mine also upgraded his 9 Standard version to 9 Suite yesterday, and he had the same info about the free Live 10 upgrade on the Ableton website.

What I'm also confused about, is that the Ableton online store shows the "up-(down)-grading" for 179€ for 9 Suite to 10 Standard. So does that mean I would loose M4L and all the Suite instruments and have to pay for that almost as much as upgrading to 10 Suite?
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Tuur
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by Tuur » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:40 pm

Noxoreos wrote:If I had Live 9 Standard and upgraded right now, the price would be 199€ to upgrade to Suite 9 and I'd get a free upgrade to Suite 10 to it. But I have Suite 9 right now and the upgrade to Suite 10 also costs 199€ (with the discount of 20% already included).
I'd say this is normal upgrade policy. Just like buying a new whatever version of 9 right now. The grace period works for all things bought from the moment (minus x days?) the announcement was made.

For all the people who don't think it's worth it: don't upgrade. Or wait for 10.x and re-evaluate. It's not that hard is it?

I'm not sure what I'll be doing. I think it'll depend on the new M4L features (if any).

Stromkraft
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:19 pm

Noxoreos wrote: Also I found the upgrade from Live 9 Standard to Live 9 Suite online for 199€
"online" is not a place. I'd be happy to learn where specifically? I couldn't find this info for my friend who has standard. If it's the same upgrade price I'm going to be recommending upgrading to Suite.
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smutek
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by smutek » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:39 pm

stringtapper wrote:
jujuman65 wrote:I'm detecting a somewhat patronizing tone in your response. Hopefully I am wrong on that?
Just following your lead, friend.

jujuman65 wrote:To clarify.....the starting point was/is Live 9 intro.The middle ground is Live 9 Suite. The end point is Live 10 Suite

As an existing customer I may complete a two stage two payment upgrade for a total outlay of £462
A more recent customer however,may make a two stage single payment upgrade for just £367

So my reward for being a loyal Ableton customer for longer is to follow the same upgrade path at a higher overall cost.

The discrepancy (i.e. "unacceptable difference or inconsistency") is....£95

I am not against paying for an upgrade, but do not wish to subsidize Ableton's new customer incentives.
Look, this is the same kind of logic-bending that comes up any time there's a new release announced.

Someone bought some such upgrade or complete version at such-and-such a time and now they feel they're owed something special because of the exact chain of events that led them to where they are now in the upgrade path. "Customer loyalty" you're calling it.

But the customer loyalty is already right there in the form of (1) the existence of an upgrade price that's lower than the full price and (2) the limited-time 20% discount applied to the upgrade price for pre-orders.

Do you really expect Ableton to go through every conceivable path a person could have taken to get to Live 10, mapping it out like Doc Brown's time-paradox web in Back to the Future II ? Really?

So essentially you're looking at the deal that someone else is getting now and wishing it was you. Or, maybe you're even looking back at your past self (to keep with the time travel motif) and realizing what a great deal you got with your upgrade from Live 9 Intro to Live 9 Suite and thinking, "Damn, I wish that was happening now instead of then. Where's my DeLorean???"
Quoted the entire thing because it’s awesome.

Trump2016
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by Trump2016 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:56 pm

jujuman65 wrote:
Quoted the entire thing because it’s awesome.
It's also wrong, because it's a substantial deviation from previous major version releases (I looked up past release notes), and you are expected to pay for features that were promised and expected in 9. They probably felt the need to monetize the wavetable synth, realized they spent far too long on 9, and that they "needed" to release something to seem relevant and cutting edge. Some cucked board meeting full of marketing buzzwords no doubt. The majority of things in the v 10 beta release notes are bug fixes.

Compare with Apple's release a few days ago of GarageBand for iOS where they reinvented the UI of a touch interface sampler in an amazing way, along with files, AB, and AU support. It was merely version 2.3.

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