Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
eddiejag
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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:52 pm

Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Post by eddiejag » Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:59 am

Honestly... We've been waiting for Live 10 for a LONG time. And now it's finally here, but somehow utterly lacks any amazing features. There are some workflow improvements, new instruments and effects, and slight tweaks. But come on... Is that honestly worthy of a software update? IMO this is a big miss. I was really hoping for a full redo on the GUI of Live. I've always hated the look of it, but loved the functionality compared to other DAWs. It simply looks like the Microsoft Excel of DAWs. Where Live had the most to improve on, it failed. There is no audio comping in Live 10. There is no "commit" feature like pro tools. So we have to do the nonsensical "freeze" then pull the midi out to become an audio track (time consuming). Live's midi capabilities are still in the caveman ages. The midi editor is absolutely hideous. They should've taken from Bitwig's book and added a separate tab for the midi editor to be full screen (I know you can drag it up but it leads to annoying conflicts when switching windows). They also need to look at Fruity Loops on how to make an amazingly fast midi workflow. Right now drawing in midi clips is sluggish and slow. Though I'm glad they added a feature to be able to edit multiple clips, I don't think thats gonna earn my money. Lastly, the damn scales in live are fucking mind numbing. The notation on the midi keyboard is all in #'s, but in Push 2 scales are all named in b's!!! WTF!!! So you have to think of Ab major and write in a G# as tonic. It's stupid. There should be a quick switch in the midi editor to toggle between showing #'s or b's.

Honestly just massively unimpressed with Live 10 as I really hoped they would do some things to catch up on the midi and audio side. I could care less about new instruments or effects, I barely use any of Live's anyways (they don't particularly sound great). I'm beginning to regret dumping Bitwig and getting a Push 2 this year. Sincerely hope more information on Live 10 comes out with some remedies to these problems.

Stromkraft
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Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Post by Stromkraft » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:31 am

eddiejag wrote:So we have to do the nonsensical "freeze" then pull the midi out to become an audio track (time consuming).
What are you talking about? You're copying the resulting audio, not the MIDI.
  • 1. Cut processing plug-ins.
  • 2. Freeze.
  • 3. Duplicate.
  • 4. Flatten duplicated track.
  • 5. Optionally group Original and Duplicate (alternatively drag an unfrozen Original to my project clips and tracks folder).
  • 6. Paste processing plug-ins.
  • 7. Unfreeze Original (or drag as per above).
That's how I do it. Steps 2 trough 4, maybe 5, can be automated with Clyphx.

Could this and many other things be improved on? Yes, of course. I haven't run Live 10 yet. So you have?
Make some music!

eddiejag
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:52 pm

Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Post by eddiejag » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:44 am

Stromkraft wrote:
eddiejag wrote:So we have to do the nonsensical "freeze" then pull the midi out to become an audio track (time consuming).
What are you talking about? You're copying the resulting audio, not the MIDI.
  • 1. Cut processing plug-ins.
  • 2. Freeze.
  • 3. Duplicate.
  • 4. Flatten duplicated track.
  • 5. Optionally group Original and Duplicate (alternatively drag an unfrozen Original to my project clips and tracks folder).
  • 6. Paste processing plug-ins.
  • 7. Unfreeze Original (or drag as per above).
That's how I do it. Steps 2 trough 4, maybe 5, can be automated with Clyphx.

You realize this is done by 1 click in PT12. "commit". And it's totally different from freeze. Freeze is there to save CPU and "commit" is there to quickly render a track. It's that simple. But in Ableton, according to you, it takes 7 steps.

Could this and many other things be improved on? Yes, of course. I haven't run Live 10 yet. So you have?

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Post by Stromkraft » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:26 am

Where's your post?
Make some music!

mekanism1200
Posts: 117
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:25 pm

Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Post by mekanism1200 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:47 pm

Why would Ableton completely change the way it looks? That would be a very risky move. Ableton is Ableton because of its excel looking gui and non linear workflow. I think they borrowed from Apple and just focused on improving what is already there.

I'm willing to bet this will be the most stable version to date. I opened up an old project that would constantly give me problems in 9 but in 10 everything just works. For a Beta 10 is looking really solid. Stability alone is worth the price of admission for me.

login
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Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:41 am

Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Post by login » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:04 pm

Live GUI is a piece of Art. Leave it alone.

ivarin
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Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Post by ivarin » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:55 pm

login wrote:Live GUI is a piece of Art. Leave it alone.
+999

long ago, before i realized anything about Live software, i admired how it looked.
i found this nearly most beautiful UI among many applications. no silly skeuomorphism trying to make you feel like you're sitting in front of super-expensive console (Reason, why?), no bells and whistles -- a streamlined access to its features.
live was flat before it was cool

post millennium falcon
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Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:40 pm

Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Post by post millennium falcon » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:53 pm

If you aren't impressed with this update, I would suggest switching your DAW. Not trying to be rude, I just think this update refines what Live is good at, in the way their updates usually do. They really won't deviate from that at this point. I love the fact that Live is getting faster and more efficient as time goes on, especially when compared with updates from other DAWs.

diegux
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:16 pm

Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Post by diegux » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:29 am

The update is amazing. It grows on you. The more I use it the more I like it.
I hope they leave the GUI just as it is.
Echo is a beautiful plugin.
I do agree on the comping. We need it and it is very important to have it.

To me, this is a great v10. The subtle arrangement changes make live a really good choice as a full solution. I hope to use Logic less and mix in Live.

ambientidm
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Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Post by ambientidm » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:59 am

Major disappointment with no MPE or VST3! I thought clip chopping and loop bracket changing like in NativeKontrol would have been natively supported. That said, it is definitely way more cpu efficient and echo is freaking awesome.

Angstrom
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Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Post by Angstrom » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:20 am

I can't say it's answered my prayers, but it's OK.
My major headaches have not really been solved by anything in there, but there are a few nice tools that I'll no doubt grow to rely on. The multi-midi thing is exceptionally useful to me and would possibly be my top feature pick in the update. It's the only feature which would actually pull me over from L9.
The new look doesn't work so well on older monitors so that's not really a selling point for me on my desktop at least.
I'm glad I'm not a betting man, because I'd have lost money on this one with all the things I thought they'd add! Actually I feel OK, because all that time & money I spent buying and learning Studio One's arranger and scratchpad wasn't wasted.

I'll buy L10 at some point, probably during the introductory offer. But I don't feel any pressure to switch over to it.
As I said: some nice updated tools, but a lot of it is functionally the same for what I need to get done.

crystalmsc
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Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Post by crystalmsc » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:13 am

To me Max integration alone is huge, especially since the devices are now working faster and more efficient. No other DAWs have access to so many free devices from a passionate user community. They will also release Max 8 a month after the release, I believe that it's going to open the door to so many posibilities and untapped potential. I'm so excited with the upcoming new M4L devices, which is supposed to be beneficial for the non programmer as well.

The deep integration with Push also the only thing known in the world of DAW. It's a bold move and taking so much of their time, but I believe not anymore, since it is a mature product now. I'm grateful for the brave move and wish that we now have a solid development for that and they can continue to focus on the program itself. Got a strong feeling that between Live 10 - 11, good things will happen.

I'm a Wavetable synth fan, with a collection of a Waldorf uWaveXT/Q, Nave, PPG 3.v/2.2v, Falcon, Dune2, Synthmaster/One, Circle2, Massive. But Live's Wavetable has a sound and feature that I've been waiting for, a raw wavetable sound of an early uWave with a modern touch and hardware feel, especially when combined with Push 2 and the new devices such as Echo, Pedal, Drum Bus. It brings fresh materials to the Rack for a sound of it's own, with a character and excellent workflow. The new effect devices are a well choosen addition for a CPU friendly alternatives.

The development of Live itself is on a healthy direction, without changing everything to radically. I have a strong feeling that after all the hard time they've had by integrating Max and opitimizing Push, it's going to be easier and faster to develop Live itself. I love this update and their forward thinking direction. Especially if they're focusing on optimizing the program for becoming more stable, CPU optimized, implementing crash protection, and those important feature requests. Let's see!
Kaossilatron - Voicillator
Station: Ableton Live 10 Suite, Obscurium, Push 2, Ultranova, MS-20m, Wavedrums

Machinesworking
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Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Post by Machinesworking » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:14 am

I'm not impressed, but that's not because it's not a good update.
It's a good update, it's just not a ridiculously good update, like Logic when all FX and instruments were included for free for instance.

It's an above average update, especially considering Ableton will add some more features in before the next paid upgrade.

It's also a little confusing, I fully expected them to:

Ignore SysEx and add MPE and poly aftertouch,
Get Max 4 Live working in rewire, but keep the master DAW controlling Push etc, or not work on rewire at all,
Add in comping but ignore multi MIDI track editing...
etc. etc.

The only non surprising thing they added was a few new plug ins.

hps909
Posts: 233
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Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Post by hps909 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:20 am

yeah not overly fussed with it why i wont update is the price too expensive for what your getting .. i'm on standard .. $319AUD to go to 10 from 9 i paid $599AUD for the full app and i don't get any M4L stuff nor instruments. are the improvements worth $319 to me?? not at all ..

no comping no VST3 no native SYSEX still half baked editing tools in arrangement .. and the horrible midi clock unreliability is still there..
halve the price of the update and i might be interested.....

if i upgrade to live 9 suite now do i get live 10 suite for free? coz thats the only worthy update path for me it's an extra $50 but you get so much more for the $$
macbook pro 2.5 i5 os 10.12 , TC Electronik Konnekt 48, Live 9, Cubase 9, event 20/20, Waldorf Blofeld, roland tb-03, roland Jx-03, korg mikrokontrol, novation nocturn, akai lpd8

doghouse
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Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Post by doghouse » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:36 pm

eddiejag wrote: I was really hoping for a full redo on the GUI of Live. I've always hated the look of it, but loved the functionality compared to other DAWs. It simply looks like the Microsoft Excel of DAWs.
It's a piece of software. I'm sick of other apps trying to look like you're using a piece of hardware. Especially the ones with unreadable graphics and faux rusty metal look. How does that improve the sound? :roll:

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