SERIOUSLY? Still no "fold notes" on Push's MIDI note editor?

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Skullrattler
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SERIOUSLY? Still no "fold notes" on Push's MIDI note editor?

Post by Skullrattler » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:55 pm

I just read through the "what's new in Live 10" and don't see this. . . Seriously, Ableton. How many people have asked for this and what is the problem with implementing it? Scrolling up/ down the pads to find the MIDI notes you want to edit is a real creativity killer... Come on!!! The "fold notes" feature has been available in Live since forever... what is the problem with putting it on Push?????????????????????????????????? :x :x :x :x

At least tell us how to hack the configuration to add this?

ash1
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Re: SERIOUSLY? Still no "fold notes" on Push's MIDI note editor?

Post by ash1 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:47 am

ableton is running in beta 10 at the moment why dont you ask for the feature you want in the beta forums requests :?

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Re: SERIOUSLY? Still no "fold notes" on Push's MIDI note editor?

Post by garyboozy » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:38 pm

vote on it:
L10-SUG-0943

[jur]
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Re: SERIOUSLY? Still no "fold notes" on Push's MIDI note editor?

Post by [jur] » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:28 pm

How would like such a feature to work exactly?
You already have the non-chromatic mode on Push which equals a fold (to scale) principle.
Would you prefer something more personal, like you define 5 notes and fold them to where ever they belong to a scale or not?
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Stromkraft
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Re: SERIOUSLY? Still no "fold notes" on Push's MIDI note editor?

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:14 pm

[jur] wrote:How would like such a feature to work exactly?
You already have the non-chromatic mode on Push which equals a fold (to scale) principle.
Would you prefer something more personal, like you define 5 notes and fold them to where ever they belong to a scale or not?
Look at PXT Live and its "capture" feature that gets the notes that are used placed out, ignoring unused notes. Which is how "fold" works in Live. Especially handy when not every note belong to the same scale.
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Skullrattler
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Re: SERIOUSLY? Still no "fold notes" on Push's MIDI note editor?

Post by Skullrattler » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:06 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
[jur] wrote:How would like such a feature to work exactly?
You already have the non-chromatic mode on Push which equals a fold (to scale) principle.
Would you prefer something more personal, like you define 5 notes and fold them to where ever they belong to a scale or not?
Look at PXT Live and its "capture" feature that gets the notes that are used placed out, ignoring unused notes. Which is how "fold" works in Live. Especially handy when not every note belong to the same scale.
I have looked at PXT Live . The Capture feature only works if there are at least 4 different notes in the clip. The PXT Arsenal offers a fold mode but really I don't have the time to learn how to use these things and they are way too briefly explained. There's just to much there to take on. All these Push User mode add-ons are too awkward. I am trying to keep things simple so that I can focus on music making rather than memorising button combinations.

I just want a simple fold feature that works the same way as it works in Live: Press a button to hide unused note lanes, when editing a clip that already contains notes
. On the Push this could be done by adding another "Notes" mode. In Live 10 they have added a whole new notes mode that does something completely different (and useless IMO) but didn't see fit to add this simple feature, which is why I am annoyed. Scrolling up/down the notes with the touch strip to get to the notes you want to edit is a real PITA, and in Push 1 the notes often don't show up when scrolling for some reason. If you are editing a clip where the loop braces are inside a larger pattern, it is even harder to find the part you want as the Push apparently cannot ignore the area outside the loop braces.

I really cannot fathom why they do not include this simple note fold feature on Push that has been present in Live forever...
Coupled with the maddening lack of MIDI CC knobs to control external gear from Push ( the only option is to use Max objects and edit them in Max editor which is wayyy too awkward) is making me seriously think of abandoning Live and moving onto Maschine, which does these things quite a bit better (not to mention per-step parameter automation, custom knobs that can be renamed without resorting to external scripting environments, etc etc) and is more focused on loop-based electronic music...

Stromkraft
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Re: SERIOUSLY? Still no "fold notes" on Push's MIDI note editor?

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:16 pm

Skullrattler wrote: I have looked at PXT Live . The Capture feature only works if there are at least 4 different notes in the clip. The PXT Arsenal offers a fold mode but really I don't have the time to learn how to use these things and they are way too briefly explained.
I suggested Ableton would look at that function.
Skullrattler wrote: I really cannot fathom why they do not include this simple note fold feature on Push that has been present in Live forever...
Agreed.
Skullrattler wrote: Coupled with the maddening lack of MIDI CC knobs to control external gear from Push ( the only option is to use Max objects and edit them in Max editor which is wayyy too awkward) is making me seriously think of abandoning Live and moving onto Maschine, which does these things quite a bit better (not to mention per-step parameter automation, custom knobs that can be renamed without resorting to external scripting environments, etc etc) and is more focused on loop-based electronic music...
Ehum, I control external gear all the time from my Push, so I have no idea what you mean. I also do per step automation all the time. Please don't create limitations where there are none. I'm not saying these functions couldn't be improved though and it's quite mind-boggling sometimes how you can do things, or can't.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Skullrattler
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Re: SERIOUSLY? Still no "fold notes" on Push's MIDI note editor?

Post by Skullrattler » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:28 pm

Stromkraft wrote: Ehum, I control external gear all the time from my Push, so I have no idea what you mean. I also do per step automation all the time. Please don't create limitations where there are none. I'm not saying these function couldn't be improved though and it's quite mind-boggling sometimes how you can do things, or can't.
What I mean (unless there's some convoluted work-around that I'm missing) is that there is no way to set up virtual MIDI CC knobs and have them controlled by the Push knobs without using Max objects ( and having to mess with the Max editor to program and name the knobs and set the order in which they appear). This is ridiculous for what's meant to be a complete MIDI sequencer. MIDI CCs have been around for a very long time and Live is not new either.

Also, the per-step automation is really awkward compared to Maschine and Elektron implementations.

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Re: SERIOUSLY? Still no "fold notes" on Push's MIDI note editor?

Post by hoffman2k » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:57 pm

Skullrattler wrote:MIDI CC knobs to control external gear from Push ( the only option is to use Max objects and edit them in Max editor which is wayyy too awkward)
- Make an empty Rack

- Name the Macros

- MIDI Learn your external gear to that Rack

- Make sure MIDI Remote is set up to send and receive from the hardware

Voila, you can control your gear with Push and name the parameters. No MFL required.

Skullrattler
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Re: SERIOUSLY? Still no "fold notes" on Push's MIDI note editor?

Post by Skullrattler » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:11 pm

Thanks, I will try that... but is there a way to have more than 8 knobs and have them all appear on Push on successive pages ?

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Re: SERIOUSLY? Still no "fold notes" on Push's MIDI note editor?

Post by hoffman2k » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:27 pm

Skullrattler wrote:Thanks, I will try that... but is there a way to have more than 8 knobs and have them all appear on Push on successive pages ?
Use more Racks. Use Device Titles as Bank names.
Pages or Banks, its the same end result.

Stromkraft
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Re: SERIOUSLY? Still no "fold notes" on Push's MIDI note editor?

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:56 pm

hoffman2k wrote:
Skullrattler wrote:Thanks, I will try that... but is there a way to have more than 8 knobs and have them all appear on Push on successive pages ?
Use more Racks. Use Device Titles as Bank names.
Pages or Banks, its the same end result.
This is what I do, more or less, though I seldom need more than 8. It can be argued this is a somewhat convoluted way, but it is also how you do so many other things in Live, so I've come to accept it.

I feel it's typically better to embrace Live how it is made, warts and all, instead of fighting it. And I fought it for my first many months and my humiliation over the results gave me some extra energy to jump into the deep end to make it my tool of choice. Something I'm very happy about.
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Skullrattler
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Re: SERIOUSLY? Still no "fold notes" on Push's MIDI note editor?

Post by Skullrattler » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:22 am

hoffman2k wrote:
Skullrattler wrote:MIDI CC knobs to control external gear from Push ( the only option is to use Max objects and edit them in Max editor which is wayyy too awkward)
- Make an empty Rack

- Name the Macros

- MIDI Learn your external gear to that Rack

- Make sure MIDI Remote is set up to send and receive from the hardware

Voila, you can control your gear with Push and name the parameters. No MFL required.
I just tried this and remembered that I have tried it before and just cannot get it to work. The macro knobs can be controlled from external MIDI gear but not the other way around... I made an empty rack, inserted an external instrument set to send MIDI to the right channel and get the audio from the synth, then entered MIDI Map mode and mapped the macros to the MIDI CCs from my synth by turning the right knobs on the synth. MIDI Remote is on for the synth's MIDI in and out in Live's preferences. The synth can receive MIDI CCs without problem from Max MIDI knobs, but not the macro knobs. I have spent hours trying to get this to work, and searching online ... I'd appreciate if someone could describe in detail how to do it!

Skullrattler
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Re: SERIOUSLY? Still no "fold notes" on Push's MIDI note editor?

Post by Skullrattler » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:06 pm

This doesn't work otherwise the "8 MIDI CCs" M4L device would not have been made...

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Re: SERIOUSLY? Still no "fold notes" on Push's MIDI note editor?

Post by hoffman2k » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:10 pm

Skullrattler wrote:This doesn't work otherwise the "8 MIDI CCs" M4L device would not have been made...
The Macro knobs output via the Remote output. If you try to set it up like 8 CC's, it uses the Track output.

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