CPU usage in Live 10

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
sundar
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:15 pm

Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by sundar » Sun May 06, 2018 12:44 am

Wow, I wish I read this thread first. I do a lot of work with real-time live signal processing in Max for Live. I was experiencing some occasional glitches in M4L 9. Based on an article from The Verge, I thought that Live 10 might run more smoothly, with less CPU usage, since Max is integrated into the program, and so was excited enough to shell out for this.. I just opened up one of my saved Live sets. Before I even started playing, the CPU meter was flashing wildly, sometimes going up to 65%. As soon as I hit play, I got crackling and glitches, which doesn't happen in Live 9 until I get pretty far into the piece. I wonder if there is a simple fix. If there is no way to get improved performance with Live 10, I'm tempted to ask if there's a way I can return/refund this.:(

Edit: I am using a late 2011 Macbook Pro with an SSD that was installed in 2015 and 10GB of RAM. I am using OS 10.11.6. I have 92.4 GB of free hard drive space atm. My processor is a 2.8 GHz Intel Core i7.
Last edited by sundar on Sun May 06, 2018 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

T.I.M.
Posts: 251
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:01 am

Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by T.I.M. » Sun May 06, 2018 3:21 am

I read this thread before I upgraded to 10. I was worried about the CPU usage also, but luckily I don't get any problems on a 2017 MacBook Pro touchbar.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by Stromkraft » Sun May 06, 2018 10:55 am

sundar wrote:I was experiencing some occasional glitches in M4L 9.
Did you mean M4L 8? There is no Max For Live 9 yet AFAIK.
sundar wrote: …I just opened up one of my saved Live sets. Before I even started playing, the CPU meter was flashing wildly, sometimes going up to 65%. As soon as I hit play, I got crackling and glitches, which doesn't happen in Live 9 until I get pretty far into the piece.
I don't get any glitches in Live 10 before 90% of the CPU load meter. 65% is coasting along.

What happens if you increase the audio buffer? It's not really to be expected to get glitches "far into the piece" either, so I do wonder what audio interface you use? I use the RME Babyface myself, that RME supplied new macOS 10.12 drivers for autumn 2016 and that allowed me to drop my audio buffer to half. In lieu of a great audio interface — there are many others — increasing the audio buffer can be necessary when confronted with glitches.

I'm puzzled by the reports of performance issues in Live 10 as I have only experienced small but clear improvements.
Make some music!

sundar
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:15 pm

Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by sundar » Sun May 06, 2018 12:09 pm

Stromkraft wrote: Did you mean M4L 8? There is no Max For Live 9 yet AFAIK.
No, I was using Max for Live with Live 9: https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... ith-Live-9
Stromkraft wrote: I don't get any glitches in Live 10 before 90% of the CPU load meter. 65% is coasting along.
I was at 65% before I even hit play! That was the highest it ever went in that piece in Live 9 even when every device on every track was operating. The levels went much higher, above 90%, when I started playing.
Stromkraft wrote:What happens if you increase the audio buffer? It's not really to be expected to get glitches "far into the piece" either, so I do wonder what audio interface you use? I use the RME Babyface myself, that RME supplied new macOS 10.12 drivers for autumn 2016 and that allowed me to drop my audio buffer to half. In lieu of a great audio interface — there are many others — increasing the audio buffer can be necessary when confronted with glitches.

I'm puzzled by the reports of performance issues in Live 10 as I have only experienced small but clear improvements.
[/quote]

When performing, I need to keep the buffer at 128 samples to avoid excessive latency. I use a Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 and have for 10 years. And I'm comparing Live 10 to Live 9 on the same Live Set on the same system on the same day. When I'm playing back a Live Set, I could increase the buffer, but that does not concern me so much.

Stromkraft
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Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by Stromkraft » Sun May 06, 2018 9:39 pm

sundar wrote:I use a Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 and have for 10 years. And I'm comparing Live 10 to Live 9 on the same Live Set on the same system on the same day.
How many channels do you have active in Live? Unless I'm misunderstanding the downloads page at Focusrite and assuming the driver is part of MixControl, this was last updated December 2015?

You can compare that to RME who updated their drivers last week, including for my now discontinued product. Bad drivers was what got me to the Babyface once. Can't say if this is involved at all in your case.

That said, I always viewed Focusrite as one of the better makers. I haven't really used their products though. Also I don't think drivers, old or not, could explain the described performance differences you experience in Live 10.

On the other hand this, that my old interface couldn't be behind my issues at the time, is also what I believed before getting the Babyface which solved all my issues at once; just like that in the pre-Live10 era a few years back. I suppose you could try with native audio and see if that makes any difference. You'd have to double your audio buffer likely though.

I really hope Ableton steers this one right. Performance issues are unacceptable.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Wed May 09, 2018 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Make some music!

sundar
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:15 pm

Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by sundar » Mon May 07, 2018 2:39 am

Thanks. I updated MixControl. CPU usage is much more reasonable now. Based on one run-through, I still get spikes and glitches as the piece develops and more tracks and devices are used, but it does not seem worse than Live 9. Getting rid of these problems is still going to take more than an upgrade to Live 10, though, it seems.

lalo
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:47 pm

Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by lalo » Wed May 09, 2018 1:08 pm

Here's to..Live 10 performs way worst than Live 9. If i open with L9 one of my "huge" livesets (with lot of M4L stuff and VST plugins) i have no problems at all.
With L10 i have plenty of glitches and even some freeze (for some seconds Live 10 stops playng and GUI freezes). It's just not usable for live performance for me.
My setup is pretty old but no problems with huge projects on Reaper and Live 9.
My laptop : HP Elitebook 8560w - Intel Core i7-2670QM (4 real cores 8 virtual) - 24Gb RAM - 512Gb SSD - RME HDSPe ExpressCard with Multiface I - Windows 7 Pro 64bit.

purplemusicandmedia
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:56 pm

Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by purplemusicandmedia » Tue May 15, 2018 9:38 pm

I use my Ableton Live for gigs weekly and never has problems with 9.7. My CPU usage has caused some problems at gigs so I now having to go back to 9.7. I have added a lot of new scenes in 10 and I am now going to have to rebuild them into 9.7. Its a great software but it needs to be rock solid to live up to its reputation.

Mister Natural
Posts: 232
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: michigan

Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by Mister Natural » Wed May 16, 2018 11:11 pm

wanted to update - it's been a year now since moving from AMD8core black running 4.0ghz
to a 4th gen I7 intel #4790k running no-overclk @ 4ghz - WIN 10 - 16gb memo - 2 SSD desktop - Tascam u7000 24 bit 44.1

I threw a big ass project at this old / new build and the meter never read above 25% with solid mix of audio/midi instruments/efx LIVE 10.0 suite/melodyne/ozone
zero stuttered master audio

peace
An Expert Only on What it Feels Like to be Me
& You Are Who You Google

http://soundcloud.com/mrnatural-1

[jur]
Site Admin
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Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by [jur] » Thu May 17, 2018 12:00 am

To whose of you who are seeing obvious worse performances in L10 compared to L9 using the exact same set, setup and settings, please provide detailed reports to support@ableton.com
Thanks
Ableton Forum Moderator

purplemusicandmedia
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:56 pm

Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by purplemusicandmedia » Sun May 20, 2018 9:12 pm

An update on what I have found. I went back to L9.5 which apparently had some issues around Multi core support. I turned off Multi core support and it is now running perfectly on my laptop which is a multi core processor. Just a note to say that L10 is running very smoothly on my Carillon PC with Multi core obviously on. Maybe L10 could do with have the option of wither on or off or is it there and I have missied it? :D

Stromkraft
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Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by Stromkraft » Mon May 21, 2018 7:33 am

purplemusicandmedia wrote:I turned off Multi core support and it is now running perfectly on my laptop which is a multi core processor.
Multi-core CPUs is standard since a decade. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't you just wasting the other cores?

This is my quadcore with multicore off:

Image

This is my quadcore with multicore on:

Image

That's not very uplifting because at some point that one core will be overloaded. So turning multicore off is just avoiding a problem you still have. That's not a solution as I see it. Maybe with crap hardware. But did you look at the processor settings in BIOS?
Make some music!

Stromkraft
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Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by Stromkraft » Mon May 21, 2018 8:44 am

Some food for thought:

The culprit
I made a very simple test for myself using Waves Element, which superbly sounding analog emulation synthesizer. It's often very demanding so when I found a pad patch acting up I decided to test it in both Live 9 and in Live 10.

Test setup
I made one single track playing a four note chord sequence. My 2.2 gHz quadcore i7 (2720QM) Macbook Pro, macOS 10.12, struggled with this both with the native built-in audio and my normally very effective RME Babyface.

Observations
With low CPU load, indicated from the Activity Control CPU history, I got short micro dropouts with extremely short noise bursts even at 1024 samples audio buffer. I also duplicated the track to see if the availability of other cores would mean the problems stayed the same. They didn't, which means this may not be about CPU power, but something else.

At 2048 samples of audio buffer, Live 9 still give me micro dropouts with just one track active (instrument turned off on the second), and somewhat more with two tracks active. A third track is about the same.

In contrast Live 10 can play both tracks without any issues at 2048 samples. If I add a third track it's starting to dropout. Using two tracks at 1024 samples dropouts just as much with one or two active tracks.

I've yet to make a conclusion, but what this illustrates is that both Live 9 and Live 10 can have audio issues also when there seems to be ample CPU resources available.

I can also add that Element is present in many of my songs in one of two instances without any issues and much lower latencies. The demands seem to vary with patch. In general I feel Live 10 gives me less performance problems, but I suspect that what you use does influence how well your machine may perform under pressure.
Make some music!

mcclaine
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Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by mcclaine » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:27 am

Hello to everyone,

I'm having a weird problem, or at least something i wasn't expecting.

I'm currently changing my PC, so at the moment i have to PCs, the old one and the new.

The old one:
Windows 7 64 bit
I7 2600
8gb of RAM DDR3 1333 hz
HDD Western Digital 1tb

The new one:
Windows 10 64 bit
I7 7700
32 gb of RAM DDR4 2400 hz
SSD Western Digital 1tb

Both are using the same version on Live 10, with the same audio card, a USB Focusrite Scarlett 2i4

Here's the thing:

I open a new project, the default one. Insert an Ableton instrument (a Wavetable pad preset), play one chord (D major) and the CPU Usage on the old one is at 16%

The same exact clean project, with the same preset, with the same stupid chord and the new PC goes to 26%....

How in the hell can this happens?!!?

To make things more absurd, my old PC is full of software and content, and libraries and stuff.
The new one in Windows 10, one have one day since i've installed the OS, and only have Live installed, not even one plug in....

Can Windows 10 make my CPU goes higher? meaning, worst managing of the resources??

Please, let me know what you think, cos if this is true, i would have to go back to Windows 7.

Thanks in advance!

Stace30
Posts: 139
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Location: Isle of Beatz

Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by Stace30 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:33 am

Hi Mcclaine,

I had a few CPU issues with Live when I first got my new Windows 10 laptop. I made a few changes and it is now running great.

The following might help.....

https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/ ... Windows-10
Live 10 Suite 10.6, M4L, MPC TOUCH MPC software v2.4, Reason 4, Komplete 11, i7 Laptop, 12g Ram, Win 10, Adam A7's & Genelec 8010's - Joined Forum in 2006.

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