Live 10 upgrade path

Discussion of anything not related to audio or music production
Tarekith
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by Tarekith » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:58 pm

We're sorry you feel that way.

Marias
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by Marias » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:12 pm

Yeah, for loyal Ableton supporters, $299 upgrade is ridiculous. How unfortunate, as I was all in for Ableton. It will now remain as a live 9 performance tool, and music will be made with Reason.
Bummer.

pottering
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by pottering » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:29 pm

Marias wrote:Yeah, for loyal Ableton supporters, $299 upgrade is ridiculous. How unfortunate, as I was all in for Ableton. It will now remain as a live 9 performance tool, and music will be made with Reason.
Bummer.
It is $250 on sale, that's when people upgrade.

If you are going to pick the worst case for the Live upgrade, then the worst case for Reason is $399.

Not exactly smart paying $399 to switch DAWs to save $299 from the upgrade from 9 to 10.

Even on the current sale Reason costs $299, same price as the upgrade.

Also, Live 10 update is not only Live 10.

It is also Max 8.

Max 8 is AMAZING.

Max UI is way faster now, zooming and connecting stuff is muuuuch faster and easier (not only UI speed but the new shift+drag function), hence more fun to use.

Also:

I have a Sonic Faction M4L instrument called Hypermorph.

The bloody thing ate CPU like nothing, 90% of the settings ended up using more than 100% CPU and causing crackles, it was basically completely unusable, made Serum look tame in comparison.

Well, with the latest beta, which has Max 8.0.2 bundled, the CPU usage for Hypermorph dropped almost 50%.

Now Hypermorph eats 50% to 65% in most settings, still high, but actually usable (RePro and Serum eat about the same CPU). Can even play more than one voice (luxury!).

And it is not even a listed "new feature" for Live 10, it is just one of HUNDREDS (maybe thousands) of improvements Live 10 has.

Sad that people keep kvetching about the bullet-point features like Echo and Wavetable, and end up not noticing the unnamed improvements that are the real gold in the Live 10 update...

H20nly
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by H20nly » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:44 pm

pottering wrote:Sad that people keep...

... repeating this cycle.

Every upgrade sale it's the same thing.

Cue forum threads
Cue outrage
Cue demand for more savings for long time users
Cue mention of Fruity Loops pricing
Cue righteous indignation
Cue flimsy Apples to Oranges DAW comparisons
Cue rationale
Cue offended tangents from rationale
Cue further attempts at rationale
Cue more outrage
Cue i'm leaving statements
Cue mention of BitWig and Reaper features... with sprinkles of Studio One
Go!
Rinse/Repeat

Seriously... Ableton should NEVER EVER have a sale and just stop the whole cycle. Pull it out at roots.

kitekrazy
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Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:16 pm

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by kitekrazy » Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:19 am

I'd have to agree that the Suite to Suite upgrade is a terrible value. It's my last version of Suite. No real upgrades in it to justify the price. 3rd party stuff is better if you have Kontakt, Synthmaster 1, Serum. I know you get Max 8 but I find Live gets really deep when you get into it more and learning Max to it's potential would take more time.

kitekrazy
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by kitekrazy » Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:23 am

pottering wrote:
Marias wrote:Yeah, for loyal Ableton supporters, $299 upgrade is ridiculous. How unfortunate, as I was all in for Ableton. It will now remain as a live 9 performance tool, and music will be made with Reason.
Bummer.
It is $250 on sale, that's when people upgrade.

If you are going to pick the worst case for the Live upgrade, then the worst case for Reason is $399.

Not exactly smart paying $399 to switch DAWs to save $299 from the upgrade from 9 to 10.

Even on the current sale Reason costs $299, same price as the upgrade.

Also, Live 10 update is not only Live 10.

It is also Max 8.

Max 8 is AMAZING.

Max UI is way faster now, zooming and connecting stuff is muuuuch faster and easier (not only UI speed but the new shift+drag function), hence more fun to use.

Also:

I have a Sonic Faction M4L instrument called Hypermorph.

The bloody thing ate CPU like nothing, 90% of the settings ended up using more than 100% CPU and causing crackles, it was basically completely unusable, made Serum look tame in comparison.

Well, with the latest beta, which has Max 8.0.2 bundled, the CPU usage for Hypermorph dropped almost 50%.

Now Hypermorph eats 50% to 65% in most settings, still high, but actually usable (RePro and Serum eat about the same CPU). Can even play more than one voice (luxury!).

And it is not even a listed "new feature" for Live 10, it is just one of HUNDREDS (maybe thousands) of improvements Live 10 has.

Sad that people keep kvetching about the bullet-point features like Echo and Wavetable, and end up not noticing the unnamed improvements that are the real gold in the Live 10 update...
Got my Live Suite upgrade for $225. You just wait. To me Reason and Live are apples and oranges. If you like to work and manipulate loops nothing really touches Live.

Machinesworking
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Location: Seattle

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:25 am

H20nly wrote:
pottering wrote:Sad that people keep...

... repeating this cycle.

Every upgrade sale it's the same thing.

Cue forum threads
Cue outrage
Cue demand for more savings for long time users
Cue mention of Fruity Loops pricing
Cue righteous indignation
Cue flimsy Apples to Oranges DAW comparisons
Cue rationale
Cue offended tangents from rationale
Cue further attempts at rationale
Cue more outrage
Cue i'm leaving statements
Cue mention of BitWig and Reaper features... with sprinkles of Studio One
Go!
Rinse/Repeat

Seriously... Ableton should NEVER EVER have a sale and just stop the whole cycle. Pull it out at roots.
It's where the price point is that makes it so.
I'm sure Ableton have very good reasons for it, but Suite is roughly $100 more expensive of an upgrade compared to what other DAW developers charge for their upgrades.
It's a hard rationale when pretty much every other DAW charges $200 roughly for an upgrade.

Let's not pretend now that Live 10 without Max is comparable, especially now that the universal LFO everyone wanted is a Max patch, it's not.

You should have seen the uproar at KVR when Arturia charged $149 instead of $99 as in intro price for V Collection 6 if you think Ableton are getting a hard time! :lol: :lol:

H20nly
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by H20nly » Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:55 pm

i just think it's always the same.

clearly, Ableton are not lowering the price or expanding the discounts... so why deal with the backlash from the sale? since so many people are soooo insulted, fuck it... no sale.

my guess is that the answer to the question is the thousands of people who took the deal, are happy with their purchase, and whom are not complaining are of greater value than the choir that forms every sale cycle.

*shrugs*

S4racen
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by S4racen » Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:38 pm

H20nly wrote:i just think it's always the same.

clearly, Ableton are not lowering the price or expanding the discounts... so why deal with the backlash from the sale? since so many people are soooo insulted, fuck it... no sale.

my guess is that the answer to the question is the thousands of people who took the deal, are happy with their purchase, and whom are not complaining are of greater value than the choir that forms every sale cycle.

*shrugs*
Agreed....

Cheers
D

Machinesworking
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Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:35 pm

H20nly wrote:i just think it's always the same.

clearly, Ableton are not lowering the price or expanding the discounts... so why deal with the backlash from the sale? since so many people are soooo insulted, fuck it... no sale.

my guess is that the answer to the question is the thousands of people who took the deal, are happy with their purchase, and whom are not complaining are of greater value than the choir that forms every sale cycle.

*shrugs*
You're reading a forum about a product, and people are prone to complaining about price points when the competition is lower. You get this with every premium priced item. You yourself have mentioned Apples price points as high, how is that different?

Basically Ableton are probably pretty aware that people complain about their price here and elsewhere, but my guess is a good amount of that price is due to all the third party dependancies in Suite, so I get it. My deal is as always to mention getting the upgrade on sale, and later, because to me stability and price are more important than new candy.

Personally I wouldn't think twice about abandoning Live if it was always $299 to upgrade Suite. No offense, love the software, but I'm a DAW slut, and competition is fierce these days, people are doing great things. They probably make a lot of money on the sales from others like me, so why would they care about complainers?

H20nly
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Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: The Wild West

Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by H20nly » Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:08 pm

Machinesworking wrote:They probably make a lot of money on the sales from others like me, so why would they care about complainers?
Bingo.

me too. i don't have Live 10 (yet), but when i do buy it (and i will), i'll happily take whatever discounts are available



but your comparison above, Apples to Abletons, :lol: pfft! Ableton's welterweight overcharge pales in comparison. Apple have the art of jacking up the price on lock down. :twisted:

fabrice segura
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Re: Live 10 upgrade path

Post by fabrice segura » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:48 am

i’m looking for a live 9 suite upgrade to live10 suite, but less than 250 euros.
When ableton will make discount prices? (no black friday, no christmas sale)
i had use two trial (live 10) since november :|

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