Another MIDI sync issue. Audio sample added for reference.

robtronik · Post by **robtronik** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:32 pm

Not Using the Beta yet, but here is my very reproduceable issue:

I have a Korg EMX sync'd up to Ableton Live via MIDI Clock out (Electribe is slaved).

I'm using an Ozonic as the audio and MIDI interface. I have to set individual tracks' delay to 84 miliseconds to get the looped audio to sync up to the electribe.

All stays in sync until I try to set a loop point via my midi keyboard (I have it set up via MIDI learn). When I select a loop in point, it causes the MIDI clock to go out of sync. All my audio clips stay in sync, but the electribe is out of sync. To me I hear a bit of an audio hiccup (slight) when I try to loop set point in and it seems to me to that there is a CPU usage issue maybe? Weird, but possible.

I have a G4 Powerbook, 15" 1.67 ghz. 1.5 GB RAM, OS X tiger 10.4.2

BTW, I routing the audio of the ectribe back into Live via the Ozonic and having it play in it is own track.

rob.

robtronik · Post by **robtronik** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:22 am

I'm going to try this with the beta release to see if it still is a problem. Report/update forthcoming...

rob.

robtronik · Post by **robtronik** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:40 am

here is an audio sample (128 kbps, MP3) of the electribe going out of sync with loops in Live when setting loop markers in and out. In the first couple of minutes, I use three audio sources:

1) The electribe and a typical house loop.

They start out in sync (I mute each one so you can hear them on their own for second). Then I add a full song that has been warped appropriately and play that over the two loops. Everything is in sync. Then I start looping the song via using set and release looping in the clip view via my Ozonic keyboard) and the electribe steady kick drum falls out of time every time I set a loop using my ozonic keyboard. Every time I set a loop, it get's worse. At the end of the the example, I pull the song out and you can hear how much the timing has degraded. For reference I mute and unmute the different tracks to show how the audio loops in Live stay in sync despite the MIDI timing hiccups, but the electribe is hopelessly out of sync. I stop playback, restart and they are both in sync again.

Then for the second example, I just play the house loop and the electribe, start them out in sync. I also playback the third song, but keep it muted. I then continue to set and release loop points on the muted track. Since it is muted, you can hear the degradation of timing between the two (the electribe and the audio loop) happen clearly, and over time.

I then stop playback, restart and they are back in sync again.

http://www.robtronik.com/MIDI-outofsync.mp3

Note that I am using the most recent beta to illustrate this problem. It also occurs on 5.01.

rob.

robtronik · Post by **robtronik** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:28 pm

And just to be totally clear (as I didn't make this point or let the audio play long enough to prove this point), the audio loop and the electribe stay in sync indefinitely as long as I am not triggering a loop in a track. Once I do that, the timing between Live playback and the Electribe then degrades each time I set a loop on any particular audio clip in a track.

FYI.

rob.

robtronik · Post by **robtronik** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:59 pm

any feedback on this please?

rob.

robtronik · Post by **robtronik** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:57 pm

I notice this thread is getting read, but is there ANY insight to this problem by anyone at the Ableton office? No responses yet.

Can you (Abletons) duplicate the error? Am I on crack? Some feedback would be awesome and much appreciated.

Right now I have to not loop in Live if I want to keep my timing tight when using my external gear (which is kind of a bummer).

Thanks,

Rob.

robtronik · Post by **robtronik** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:13 am

with beta 6 I noticed that the setting of loops via a keyboard is a bit more tight (no dipping in the audio when a loop set point is triggered via my MIDI keyboard - which was an indicator that my MIDI clock to the electribe would be out of sync). I can still get the MIDI clock to drift if I QUICKLY set loop ins and outs and hit my loop key in my midi keyboard, but I thought I should report that setting loops doesn't appear to cause the clock to drift immediately, and under all circumstances, anymore.

That's a good thing I think. I hope you guys purposely did something to start tackling this... instead of it randomly getting better.

I feel a bit more confident for a show that I am doing tomorrow night with Live and my electribe....

rob.

Post by **Alex** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:15 pm

Hi robtronik,

sorry for the delayed answer.
When you say "setting a loop point" via MIDI or KEY remote, what exactly do you mean?

- The clip position or the clip loop length in the clip view
or
- The Cue markers from the arrangement view

regards,
Alex

robtronik · Post by **robtronik** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:23 pm

- The clip position or the clip loop length in the clip view

this is what I found the problem in. I haven't checked arrangment looping capability since I don't use arrangement view when playing Live.

I have not tried to make the error occur using computer Keyboard initiated loop settings in clip view, so I can't verify if the problem I am encountering is only specific to setting loop in and loop out points using a MIDI keyboard.

I can try it with the computer keyboard as well if that is of interest to your team.

Thanks

Rob.