Global groove needs to come back for LIVE beat making!

[Scaper7]

What you see isn't what you hear. It's what you assume.

to be honest, i'm not one to make assumptions in this field. More like forensic ... my observations based on 25 years+ working with drum samples/MIDI loops, drum machines and drummers.

as interesting as your post might be, it's straying a ways off topic. with respect, it's not a debate about 'Grid vs whatever'. The topic here is "Global groove needs to come back for LIVE beatmaking" ... here's from the original post (a very specific problem to address)

... if you, like me, are making tracks and beats on the fly on stage, you need to be able to set a default groove for your project. Things need to be simple and fast. If I'm making a Jackin House track I know that every clip I record is going to be quantized and swing like a mofo. I don't want to have to muck about in the groove pool, finding the right groove, then applying it to the clip I just recorded ...

and the simple proposed solution

Please, it can't be that hard to have a default groove as an option, right?

so let's give this topic a little oxygen ... it's a simple idea that would solve a current problem for live beatmaking

Ernst isn't the only one having this problem. And a simple 'default groove' option would fix it.

[Stromkraft]

The topic here is "Global groove needs to come back for LIVE beatmaking" ... here's from the original post (a very specific problem to address)

... if you, like me, are making tracks and beats on the fly on stage, you need to be able to set a default groove for your project. Things need to be simple and fast. If I'm making a Jackin House track I know that every clip I record is going to be quantized and swing like a mofo. I don't want to have to muck about in the groove pool, finding the right groove, then applying it to the clip I just recorded ...

and the simple proposed solution

Please, it can't be that hard to have a default groove as an option, right?

so let's give this topic a little oxygen ... it's a simple idea that would solve a current problem for live beatmaking

Ernst isn't the only one having this problem. And a simple 'default groove' option would fix it.

Yes, I fully agree with that part. A default groove would be wonderful. That does not mean Ableton need to go backwards and re-implement the groove function of Live 7.

I think and feel the grove function overall need some love from Ableton, as I see it as central for the attraction of Live. I think, despite its shortcomings, it is marvellous.

I'd like to see

• Default grooves per track
• Ability to choose groove and adjust all parameters from the Push
• Ability to keep note lengths or change the movement of the note ends (note offs) differently than the starts.
• Some visual reference of what the groove is doing compared to the original data, that doesn't necessitate committing.
• Integrated groove editing, probably in the style of ghosting

[Tagor]

http://beatwise.proboards.com/thread/18 ... peat-rates[/quote]

So can the Push note repeat function not be changed anymore via clyphx control surface actions anymore? Or did just the precise way to change it change? (I haven't used my Push in a long while)
In the later case I'm sure you could just change the new const.py file (of clyphx) in the same manner as the one in the thread was altered.

No its not, cause the python language changed its resolution in which this repeatnotes are programmed - the ratios are now coded in a much more complicated formula, thats make it not easy to reproduce the doted and others repeat states.

look:

t = 3.0 / 2.0
NOTE_REPEAT_FREQUENCIES = [32 * t,
32,
16 * t,
16,
8 * t,
8,
4 * t,
4]
del t

class NoteRepeatComponent(ModesComponent):

^^^this code whas kind of easy to expand, the nasa-moonlanding formula they use in the newer script is useless until you made your bachelor in astrophysiks and nuclear-mathematics.

[TomKern]

No its not, cause the python language changed its resolution in which this repeatnotes are programmed - the ratios are now coded in a much more complicated formula, thats make it not easy to reproduce the doted and others repeat states.

look:

t = 3.0 / 2.0
NOTE_REPEAT_FREQUENCIES = [32 * t,
32,
16 * t,
16,
8 * t,
8,
4 * t,
4]
del t

class NoteRepeatComponent(ModesComponent):

^^^this code whas kind of easy to expand, the nasa-moonlanding formula they use in the newer script is useless until you made your bachelor in astrophysiks and nuclear-mathematics.

The moon landing was Fake News, haven't you heard?!

Anyways that piece of code doesn't look like it should be what is defining the ratios (not enough information contained), rather it could be the function that calls the elsewhere defined ratios.
Maybe it's worth it to hunt some more in the clyphx files for the ratios. Or simply ask Stray, he obviously knows how to do it and is always super helpful.

Huh, or strike that

It is pretty clear that multiplying the main resolution (16th, 8th, 4th etc) by 1.5 (t = 3.0/2.0) leads to triplet notes.
You could try if it gives you the ability for 1/2 triplets by adding two lines of 2, and 2*t before the ] bracket.
If that works you can then simply define d = 2.0 / 3.0 right after the formula for t and then get your dotted notes by adding lines within the brackets for 32*d, 16*d etc. (or simply dividing by "t" instead of multiplying should do the same)
Might be worth trying


Note: I don't actually know how any of this goes, so this is just speculation on my part going from what I take from the available information.

[Tennor]

The groove pool is good but a global groove like the one in NI Maschine mk3 is needed.
You simply set the global groove amount and then each track can add extra to it if needed which is quick and easy.

[Angstrom]

the oddest thing about groove is ... there's the weird "hidden" groove which I guess is accesible very easilly from Push, but also via the API.

I have a footpedal assigned to it, the more times I press it the more groovy the currently selected clip gets. Well that's how I like to use it.

I mean this

Code: Select all

def swingclip (self,value):
	if value>0:
		self.song.swing_amount=0.2#set swing amount
		self.song.view.highlighted_clip_slot.clip.quantize(5,0.7) #apply it incrementally

it's unusual because it's a completely separate swing from the groove pool. it's just a plain old 16th shuffle

[Stefan Jantschek]

the oddest thing about groove is ... there's the weird "hidden" groove which I guess is accesible very easilly from Push, but also via the API.

That is the Push-Swing.
It has a monofunctional knob on Push.

it's a completely separate swing from the groove pool. it's just a plain old 16th shuffle

Indeed.
Unfortunately.

*S.

[yki]

I find it incredible that there's no default groove to be applied to MIDI clips. After using Ableton for non-live music production for a decade, I've recently started to explore using it live, and I can't understand how people use it without a global swing/groove that's automatically applied to recorded clips.

FWIW, I made the following kludge to the Akai APC mini remote scripts, APC_mini / APC_mini.py:

Code: Select all

	...
def quantize_song(song):
    for t in song.tracks:
        for c_s in t.clip_slots:
            if c_s and c_s.clip:
                song.swing_amount = 0.2 # <-- hard-coded swing strength
                c_s.clip.quantize(5,1.0) # 5 = 1/16th
	...

class APC_mini(APC_Key_25):
	...
    def _create_controls(self):
	...
        for track in self._matrix_buttons:
            for button in track:
                button.add_value_listener(self._matrix_button_event, identify_sender=True)
	...
    def _matrix_button_event(self, value, sender):
        quantize_song(self.song())
	...

With this I get a 16th swing for all clips whenever I press any of the matrix buttons on the APC mini, so creating things live becomes usable. Of course it's a kludge/hack with a hard-coded swing strength etc. but I need that to be able to do anything at all.

[thomashalp]

also want this.
Only thing thats keeping push from being a total mpc killer/replacement/whatever.
Used an mpc a while back for the first time since getting a push and i immediately felt why its so much better, its all in the swing