Non (very low) Latency Controller??????

Skrikin · Post by **Skrikin** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:06 pm

I've been seraching this forum for days trying to find a Midi controller for Dj'ing in Live 5 with but they all seem to have major drawbacks. Is there such a beast as the Evolution 33e (or very simialr with at least 6 channels and buttons/knobs) but with lower latency so it can be used for cuts etc.

If anyone has used the Behringer Controllers please tell me what they are like and if they too suffer from the same latency problems.

Any help would be greatly appreciated......

P.S

Please don't tell me to try the serach engine i have......

quandry · Post by **quandry** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:57 pm

Skrikin wrote:I've been seraching this forum for days trying to find a Midi controller for Dj'ing in Live 5 with but they all seem to have major drawbacks. Is there such a beast as the Evolution 33e (or very simialr with at least 6 channels and buttons/knobs) but with lower latency so it can be used for cuts etc.

If anyone has used the Behringer Controllers please tell me what they are like and if they too suffer from the same latency problems.

Any help would be greatly appreciated......

P.S

Please don't tell me to try the serach engine i have......

Latency, with MIDI??? I don't think you'll have much latency issues with midi controllers. If you soundcard and computer can handle low latency for audio, the midi is a breeze. I have a uc33e and bcr-2000 and have never felt like there is andy latency in response--my totaly audio latency is 4 ms out of Live. Where have you heard about latency problems for MIDI controllers--MIDI is simple data from 80's technology, its beauty is that it doesn't really have any noticable latency.

Ryan

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:20 pm

there can be noticable lag when using midi faders. Ask a dj who has tried to do cutting with a midi crossfader.

But this is a question of how midi has been implemented in the host, I guess the real culprit is host based midi thinning.

IOW, if you have a lag with one controller, there will be such a lag with every controller.

Skrikin · Post by **Skrikin** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:59 pm

one user suggested the Kenton controller can perform dj style cuts. Does anyone know if it does and if so is it to do with the controller or ableton. Looking at a combination on BCR and BCF or UC-33e any experience with any of these and how they perform would be appreciated....

P.s

If anyone knows how to get round this probelm please let me know

mosca · Post by **mosca** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:31 pm

i thought the UC33e had some kind of compensation for this built in?

i may be wrong, never had any problems with mine on the latency front - lets face it tho, you're not going to get q-bert style crossfader action with a usb/midi interface are you

mosca

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:41 pm

? you can't compensate for a real-time signal... Unless you're using AI, which I can guarantee you they didn't do on the UC33e

Skrikin · Post by **Skrikin** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:55 pm

Does this occur on the Beringer controllers too. Evolution say it's an anti-jitter thing that causes the lag. So don't tink thoer doing anything about it. Not doing any qbert but i DJ breaks quite alot so cuts can be quite important aswell as quick sweeps with filters etc.

What do you guys use??????

atomic · Post by **atomic** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:46 pm

Midi is very old technoligy and is slow. All controllers that transfer via midi are going to have some lag there is no way around it that I have seen in my ten years as a computer music production.

Sorry.

dCross · Post by **dCross** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:56 pm

I believe this is a problem all MIDI controllers have.

Your best solution may be to map switches to the crossfader - that way the lag is in the keypress, not the fader movement.

Skrikin · Post by **Skrikin** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:42 pm

Thanks for all ya help peeps....

Think i'll try mapping either side of the cross fader to buttons/keys.

fsk · Post by **fsk** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:45 pm

cant escape latency, altho I dont notice it, I'm never trying to cut stuff very fast, but on the few occasions I have, the uc33e i have has never given me problems.

Im just gonna throw this out there as an idea but...

how about you buy a soundcard with lots of outputs, maybe a 4/10, buy multi channel dj mixer,, then set every track you're using on live to its own individual output, then connect that to the corresponding mixer channel!??

scottorlans · Post by **scottorlans** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:56 am

It could be that you are actually hearing the effects of audio latency. Let's say you move a fader on the controller, and let's assume that there is no or low latency with the MIDI signal. But let's say your whatever audio device you're using has something like 50ms or so buffer. What you are hearing will seem to lag behind your movements, so the controller will seem sluggish, but actually it is the audio that is being delayed. To check this, go into your preferences and check your audio buffer. If it is above 10ms or so you will be able to notice it and it would affect fast controller movements. If you can't get your audio buffer below 10ms without problems (distortion, pops, gaps, etc), then try upgrading your audio device. I'm running an Echo Indigo card with 5ms or so latency. It could probably go down to 2ms, but just to be safe...

Anyway, that may not be your problem, but hope it helps...

Skrikin · Post by **Skrikin** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:06 am

My latency is down to 8ms i already sorted it out. From what other people have said it's evolutions code that stops jitter so by smothing the midi to get rid of rapid changes, this inturn causes lag on movements... Oh Well!

I was wondering if by muting the midi from the controller then moving the slider/s to where ya want them (i.e cut multiple tracks) then unmuting would work. If you've got that controller could ya try it for me to see if that also has noticable lag.

scottorlans · Post by **scottorlans** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:24 am

Strange... they should provide some way to turn off "MIDI smoothing..." Oh well glad you got your answer anyway...

scottorlans · Post by **scottorlans** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:25 am

And don't know about the other thing - I don't have this controller...

Non (very low) Latency Controller??????

Non (very low) Latency Controller??????

Re: Non (very low) Latency Controller??????