Live 10.1 crashes every time when trying to load a song

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Angstrom
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Live 10.1 crashes every time when trying to load a song

Post by Angstrom » Fri May 31, 2019 9:52 pm

Anyone else have this?
It's a bit shit.

Songs which load fine in the beta crash Live 10.1 release

I trashed my preferences and rebuilt everything which is a royal PITA because it means renaming all my interfaces, resetting all my clock offsets, etc. Did all that and still...
I go to load a song and Live 10.1 just crashes.

poor quality

and yes, I have reported it, sent dumps, etc.

cotdagoo
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Re: Live 10.1 crashes every time when trying to load a song

Post by cotdagoo » Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:17 pm

The only time I've had this happen (and not on EVERY song, but some) is when I've been using M4L devices (primarily Envelope Follower device) in my projects.

Have you been able to find anything in the logs? Assuming you're reporting to regular non-beta support for these issues, so I can't take a peek at your crash reports unfortunately.

[jur]
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Re: Live 10.1 crashes every time when trying to load a song

Post by [jur] » Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:23 pm

You have problems with sets that were running fine with the latest beta?
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Angstrom
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Re: Live 10.1 crashes every time when trying to load a song

Post by Angstrom » Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:06 pm

[jur] wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:23 pm
You have problems with sets that were running fine with the latest beta?
Yes. I've gone back to the latest beta because the songs won't open in the release version of 10.1
They work fine in Beta 22, or whatever it is we are on.

There are quite a few Max devices in the sets which are not loading.
a few sets do load, but the ones which don't are the ones I need to work on.

Surely Max can't be a problem. Everyone knows it is tightly integrated and very definitely not an issue which destabilised Live. So ... it can't be that can it. No sensible developer would build a crashy bomb into an app designed for stage would they. So, surely we can rule out Max as the culprit here.
*cough* *cough*

maky355
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Re: Live 10.1 crashes every time when trying to load a song

Post by maky355 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:48 am

Angstrom wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:06 pm


There are quite a few Max devices in the sets which are not loading.
a few sets do load, but the ones which don't are the ones I need to work on.

Surely Max can't be a problem. Everyone knows it is tightly integrated and very definitely not an issue which destabilised Live. So ... it can't be that can it. No sensible developer would build a crashy bomb into an app designed for stage would they. So, surely we can rule out Max as the culprit here.
*cough* *cough*
Surely Max IS the culprit here. Which is why i stopped working with it entirely and using Live without it. At this point i lost my faith and i think Max won't be ever as stable as it should be. Meaning i don't have to worry about it.

[tow]
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Re: Live 10.1 crashes every time when trying to load a song

Post by [tow] » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:10 pm

Please contact Support directly with this issue and include the crash reports.

The released Live 10.1 version is identical to the last Live 10.1 Beta build (10.1b22 RC4), so there can't be a technical difference causing this issue.
It could be possible of course that there are different Preferences settings between both versions playing a role here (since Live 10.1 copied it over from 10.0.6 instead of the last Beta). Have you checked and compared this?

Angstrom
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Re: Live 10.1 crashes every time when trying to load a song

Post by Angstrom » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:23 pm

[tow] wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:10 pm

It could be possible of course that there are different Preferences settings between both versions playing a role here (since Live 10.1 copied it over from 10.0.6 instead of the last Beta). Have you checked and compared this?

I actually trashed the preferences as one of the first things I did to try and fix this.
Angstrom wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 9:52 pm
I trashed my preferences and rebuilt everything which is a royal PITA because it means renaming all my interfaces, resetting all my clock offsets, etc. Did all that and still...
I go to load a song and Live 10.1 just crashes.



So , today I was writing an extensive support post on this one
I've been going through a few things trying to narrow it down. This is a weird bug. But I seem to have triggered a way around it !

PREVIOUS: I had tried to load a number of songs, ranging from the complex to the very simple (contains just one wav file, or just 3 wav files on 3 tracks)
Live 10.1 crashed every time

Oddly what I did to test (and fix) was I went into Live->preferences and deselected all my Controllers from the pullddown selection and then re-selected them all again.

TEST 1: First I took out my own Python script for an FCB 1010, suspecting my crappy Python may trigger a fatal error in some changed LOM element
RESULT: Live still crashed on loading a song. Phew, it's not my script!

TEST 2: I took out every remotescript from the pulldowns. Lauchpad, and one from Isotonik
RESULT: Live loaded! Oh shit, it must be that old Isotonik script I no longer have the access to!

TEST 3: I added all the remotescripts back into a running Live and tried them out, to see if the LOM / Pythin calls crash Live.
RESULT: Live stayed up. weird.

TEST 4: I tried to load a song with all 3 suspect scripts active
RESULT: Live loaded! Wut.

TEST 5: I closed Live and reopened it and tried to load a series of songs with all 3 suspect scripts active
RESULT: Live loaded the songs. Live 10.1 continues to function normally.

This doesnt make much sense to me because as I said earlier I trashed my prefs and had to re-insert these controllers (via the pulldowns) previously when I first tried this. But what I've done differently today is load a song between each addition / alteration of those and somehow that has made a difference.


Should I send this to support?

My Live is working now, but it may be useful info for the help staff, or to track what seems like a bug (if it has a workaround like this)

Angstrom
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Re: Live 10.1 crashes every time when trying to load a song

Post by Angstrom » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:14 pm

Actually,
it now is refusing to load a song again. A totally different song from 2018

I will contact support with my lengthy issues.

I will continue working in the Beta where everything works

Angstrom
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Re: Live 10.1 crashes every time when trying to load a song

Post by Angstrom » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:40 pm

OK, well I've had no response from Support so far - so I'll not bother punting mails into the void and I will put my finding so far here.
I had a weird feeling it was an issue between the controler scripts and the paths. Since deleting my prefs I have not reset my VST2 and VST3 custom folders. I'm seeing things in the logs and behaviour of L10 as it crashes which made me think of the following test.

TEST 16: 4th June 2019
Try to load a song "X" (with remote scripts active )
RESULT: crash

--- experiment
TEST 17
open Live 10.1, disable all controller scripts in prefs
Try to load a song "X"
RESULT: Success.

Re-activate all controller scripts in prefs pane
Try to load a song "X"
RESULT: Success.

Close live and re-open it (with remote scripts active )try to load song X
RESULT: crash

re-open Live(with remote scripts active )try to load song Y
RESULT: crash

re-open Live(with remote scripts active )try to load song Z
RESULT: crash


open Live 10.1, disable all controller scripts in prefs
Try to load a song "X"
RESULT: Success.


Opening Live with remotescripts active and the VST3 path not set and trying to open a song results in a crash.
If I try to open a live set while controlers are active at Live startup, something goes wrong. Loading a set crashes live.
If I try to open a live set while controlers are inactive at Live startup, Loading a set works. If I then re-activate controlers Loading a set still works.

There appears to be a bug where if remotescripts are active when there is a path issue on VST folders Live cannot load a set.

---- testing hypothesis about paths and remotescripts race condition.


TEST 18
set paths for VST3
set controler scripts active.
close live, reopen live

Try to load a song "X" (with remote scripts active )
RESULT: Success.

Try to load a song "Y" (with remote scripts active )
RESULT: Success.

Try to load a song "P" (with remote scripts active )
RESULT: Success.

Opening Live with remotescripts active and the VST2/ VST3 path set and trying to open a song results in a successful file load

[jur]
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Re: Live 10.1 crashes every time when trying to load a song

Post by [jur] » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:54 pm

That's quite ugly. Hopefully support is gonna answer you soon.
I'll let Torsten know you've answered back with more details.
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Angstrom
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Re: Live 10.1 crashes every time when trying to load a song

Post by Angstrom » Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:03 am

I'm actually now more suspicious that the issue lies with the old Isotonik BCRXL script in some way.
I think the one I have is from a transitionary period around Live 9.7

I realised that when I tested with all remotescripts active I was using one of my old BCR scripts and not the one from Isotonik. As soon as I swapped back to the Isotonik version the issues reappeared. :(

I think that when this remotescript throws errors in the beta they are caught and handled somehow.
I think that when it throws errors in the release version it causes the application to crash.

I no longer have access to the account that script came from so I'll be writing a BCR script this weekend I think. And testing whether mine has more luck.

I think it may be an issue that a remotescript can crash Live, it's only making API calls surely.

At least everything works OK for now in the Beta 22, so I can continue work

[jur]
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Re: Live 10.1 crashes every time when trying to load a song

Post by [jur] » Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:29 am

The weird thing is that 10.1b22 and the released 10.1 are identical builds...
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Angstrom
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Re: Live 10.1 crashes every time when trying to load a song

Post by Angstrom » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:21 am

[jur] wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:29 am
The weird thing is that 10.1b22 and the released 10.1 are identical builds...
Yeah. I know. It doesnt make any sense.
There's obviously something I've done differently between the two. They are both on the same physical drive and are set up reasonably similar. I reset the prefs of L10.1. But there must be something I've done incorrectly, or not dulicated between the two.

I'm going to try a bunch of things over the weekend.

I'd much prefer to use the release version as one benefot that has over the beta is it doesnt crash on start. For me the Beta crashes 7 out of 8 times when Try to start it. A known Max issue, never to be fixed I guess . The release version always starts, any release version. Any beta always crashes on start. But thats a whole different story!

cotdagoo
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Re: Live 10.1 crashes every time when trying to load a song

Post by cotdagoo » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:03 pm

Angstrom wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:21 am
[jur] wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:29 am
The weird thing is that 10.1b22 and the released 10.1 are identical builds...
Yeah. I know. It doesnt make any sense.
There's obviously something I've done differently between the two. They are both on the same physical drive and are set up reasonably similar. I reset the prefs of L10.1. But there must be something I've done incorrectly, or not dulicated between the two.
When you trashed the 10.1 prefs, did you allow 10.1 to re-create preferences on launch? (aka pull preferences from v10.0 or v9.7.7 install)

I'm wondering if you have trashed 10.1 prefs, and then copied preference files from your 10.1b22 install folder instead of letting 10.1 grab files from a version other than the "working" b22 release? Which is basically identical to the release version.

I know Live will grab old preferences not from the betas when installing release versions.

Angstrom
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Re: Live 10.1 crashes every time when trying to load a song

Post by Angstrom » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:04 pm

cotdagoo wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:03 pm
Angstrom wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:21 am
[jur] wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:29 am
The weird thing is that 10.1b22 and the released 10.1 are identical builds...
Yeah. I know. It doesnt make any sense.
There's obviously something I've done differently between the two. They are both on the same physical drive and are set up reasonably similar. I reset the prefs of L10.1. But there must be something I've done incorrectly, or not dulicated between the two.
When you trashed the 10.1 prefs, did you allow 10.1 to re-create preferences on launch? (aka pull preferences from v10.0 or v9.7.7 install)

I'm wondering if you have trashed 10.1 prefs, and then copied preference files from your 10.1b22 install folder instead of letting 10.1 grab files from a version other than the "working" b22 release? Which is basically identical to the release version.

I know Live will grab old preferences not from the betas when installing release versions.
What I did when I trashed the prefs was I ...
  • Closed Live.
  • Open this hidden folder
    Users\[username]\AppData\Roaming\Ableton\Live x.x.x\Preferences\
  • Deleted Preferences.cfg, Undo folder (in Live 9 this is Undo.cfg) and Template.als (if present).
  • Launchd Live.
I don't have another copy of Live 9 or 10 release version on this machine, so when it started it generated a new prefs, undo, and template. To be clear: I didn't copy them over from the beta, and the release installer wouldn't do that either.

My release version of live when it restarted after deleting those files was the usual microscopically small, shades of dark grey, contrast free interface with no audio card, etc. A fresh install of blank prefs ... I'm amazed anyone likes it that way!

I then re-entered all those many items in on each prefs pane by copying every single detail from screenshots I took of my beta prefs panels !!

My Current Suspicions
To go a little more into my suspicion about outdated 3rd party remotescripts take a look at this log extract from the release version

Code: Select all

2019-06-05T00:58:06.395020: info: Python: INFO:_Framework.ControlSurface:394 - LOG: (BCRXL) Invalid log msg: <type 'unicode'>: Mixer:set_track: Empty
2019-06-05T00:58:06.395020: info: RemoteScriptMessage: (BCRXL) Invalid log msg: <type 'unicode'>: Mixer:set_track: Empty
2019-06-05T00:58:06.395020: info: Python: INFO:_Framework.ControlSurface:394 - LOG: (BCRXL) Invalid log msg: <type 'unicode'>: Mixer:select: <_Framework.ButtonElement.ButtonElement object at 0x000000002A8052E8>, False
2019-06-05T00:58:06.395020: info: RemoteScriptMessage: (BCRXL) Invalid log msg: <type 'unicode'>: Mixer:select: <_Framework.ButtonElement.ButtonElement object at 0x000000002A8052E8>, False

... log continues this way for many entries
That indicates to me that the framework classes have changed (probably not recently) but in a way which the Beta is catching somewhat elegantly if not purposefully, probably to log. But the release version is stumbling over.

SO what I'll do is write a new BCR script this weekend and see what the new requirements are and try to eliminate errors.

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