I have basicly decided to put off buying some other synths to give my cash to the big NI monster. And in working through the pros and cons of different software I was doing some very serious listening to different synths trying to figure out what ones sounds are more valuble to me. And keepiing on track here I have to say that I rely dont like the way reason sounds most of the time. All i have been using it for is the RDK drum kit and the sampler. It seems to me that subtractor has a pretty harsh quality to it that I dont like. Dont get me wrong I like cutting sounds but it is just kida nasty in the high end. I enjoy malstrom much more but is there rely things that it can do that i cant get out of Reaktor? I was thinking of selling my copy of reason and picking up a VST sampler of some kind.
Just looking for input from others.
(off topic) Is reason somewhat redundant if you own reaktor?
(off topic) Is reason somewhat redundant if you own reaktor?
ABIT NF7+AMDXP@2500, RME Multiface, TC Powercore Element+Virus, UAD-1, Nord Lead2, Reason2.5, impOSCar, Microtonic, Reaktor5 and some other stuff...
Reason has alot more to offer than initially appears on the surface. Sure it comes with some neat patches but it's strength lies in its patching/routing/modulation capabilities.
If you sink your teeth in deep enough you'll find flavours abound.
As for Reaktor, well ... it's Reaktor. It's stock instruments are robust, versatile, unique and it's potential nearly limitless because of it's modular design.
Each software package has it's own sonic character as unique as the fingerprints of the fingers that programmed it.
Ask youself what workflow/sound are you looking for and go from there.
C
If you sink your teeth in deep enough you'll find flavours abound.
As for Reaktor, well ... it's Reaktor. It's stock instruments are robust, versatile, unique and it's potential nearly limitless because of it's modular design.
Each software package has it's own sonic character as unique as the fingerprints of the fingers that programmed it.
Ask youself what workflow/sound are you looking for and go from there.
C
I have A/B'd them and Reaktor just sounds better most of the time. It is strange though as some presets in reason stood there ground but many just sound harsh or VERY thin and flat. I am not sure that is causing that. I saw this fantastic post on the web that showed the ailising in reason as compaird to some other synth blablabla and it was very clear to see in his graphs that reason has some issues. I am not so suprised though as the synths in it are very dated now.
forge: I will only be using it with Live. Would give me a hint as to why you feel (other than the modular nature) that I will get "ALOT" more. I have my own ideas but I am just curious as to what your getting at if any one thing over another. This is a somethat silly conversatioin as I have fallen back in love with reaktor and my credit is about to take a hit (I can feel it coming) but hey my head is all over this topic. GEAR LUST!
forge: I will only be using it with Live. Would give me a hint as to why you feel (other than the modular nature) that I will get "ALOT" more. I have my own ideas but I am just curious as to what your getting at if any one thing over another. This is a somethat silly conversatioin as I have fallen back in love with reaktor and my credit is about to take a hit (I can feel it coming) but hey my head is all over this topic. GEAR LUST!
ABIT NF7+AMDXP@2500, RME Multiface, TC Powercore Element+Virus, UAD-1, Nord Lead2, Reason2.5, impOSCar, Microtonic, Reaktor5 and some other stuff...
It's one of the few apps I've kept since using Reaktor myself.
Reaktor makes most VST's redundant and is a great panacea doe gear lust though IMHO .
Nothing is as CPU friendly as Reason and if you have high quality refills the Combinator + Maelstrom and NNXT / Dr rex and Redrum still come in very handy indeed.
For me Reason 3 is now like my bread and butter rompler - a damn good one at that.
Reaktor handles the more esoteric sample mangling / granular / modelling and high end analog simulation / fm and rythmic compositional duties.
So personally I find both quite valuable for what it's worth.
Also sounds great when processed through Reaktors effect ensembles also
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Reaktor makes most VST's redundant and is a great panacea doe gear lust though IMHO .
Nothing is as CPU friendly as Reason and if you have high quality refills the Combinator + Maelstrom and NNXT / Dr rex and Redrum still come in very handy indeed.
For me Reason 3 is now like my bread and butter rompler - a damn good one at that.
Reaktor handles the more esoteric sample mangling / granular / modelling and high end analog simulation / fm and rythmic compositional duties.
So personally I find both quite valuable for what it's worth.
Also sounds great when processed through Reaktors effect ensembles also
. My aren't the wings of butterflies beautiful and do they not make wonderful perturbations.....
It's funny Fax, I remember when you posted it up for sale and me and a few others talked you out of it, now I seem to never have anything good to say about it..... 
Re: the sound quality comment - I find all the native instruments stuff is very impressive sounding, great depth and quality of the sound you can get out of it, the difference is largely like the difference between a reasonable guitar and a top notch one - it's true you can get some good out of reason, but reaktor is a million times more flexible because you can build your own modules from the ground up and modify anything any way you like (not that I ever do) but it sounds brilliant right out of the box while you have to stuff about to get the same from reason
but really the main reason I'm saying all this is because when I went from reason 2.5 to NI Komplete 2 it was like I'd moved up a whole level, suddenly all these okay modules that fit together to make reason a handy "all in one" package were suddenly surpassed by individual modules way way more impressive. And given live is my host I dont need an all in one. When I 1st got the reason 3 beta I tried REALLY hard to find a use for it, I just couldnt find one single thing it did that I couldnt do better a different way - it just didnt offer any thing to me because I already had Live, NI komplete and waves 5 and microtonic which are all outstanding.
there's a bit of a trade off with stability and CPU, although alot of people cant seem to say enough good things about the latest reaktor v5
the reason I said "if you're using it with live" is because you can do all your sequencing, resampling etc in live - there's absolutely no reason to use reason's sequencer etc and so I really cant see the benefit of it because it's totally not flexible in the way it works with other apps - rewire should have gone full duplex a long time ago.
and there is definitely something a bit dull and uninspiring about the sound of reason. I'm sure the new mastering stuff make it better but why bother pissing about wiring in all these stupid fake leads to add fx/eq etc to get it sounding on a par with reaktor's ready made ensembles??
Re: the sound quality comment - I find all the native instruments stuff is very impressive sounding, great depth and quality of the sound you can get out of it, the difference is largely like the difference between a reasonable guitar and a top notch one - it's true you can get some good out of reason, but reaktor is a million times more flexible because you can build your own modules from the ground up and modify anything any way you like (not that I ever do) but it sounds brilliant right out of the box while you have to stuff about to get the same from reason
but really the main reason I'm saying all this is because when I went from reason 2.5 to NI Komplete 2 it was like I'd moved up a whole level, suddenly all these okay modules that fit together to make reason a handy "all in one" package were suddenly surpassed by individual modules way way more impressive. And given live is my host I dont need an all in one. When I 1st got the reason 3 beta I tried REALLY hard to find a use for it, I just couldnt find one single thing it did that I couldnt do better a different way - it just didnt offer any thing to me because I already had Live, NI komplete and waves 5 and microtonic which are all outstanding.
there's a bit of a trade off with stability and CPU, although alot of people cant seem to say enough good things about the latest reaktor v5
the reason I said "if you're using it with live" is because you can do all your sequencing, resampling etc in live - there's absolutely no reason to use reason's sequencer etc and so I really cant see the benefit of it because it's totally not flexible in the way it works with other apps - rewire should have gone full duplex a long time ago.
and there is definitely something a bit dull and uninspiring about the sound of reason. I'm sure the new mastering stuff make it better but why bother pissing about wiring in all these stupid fake leads to add fx/eq etc to get it sounding on a par with reaktor's ready made ensembles??
sorry, that arguement doesnt hold much water.
Of course you can do things different ways in one program and another. welcome to computer music...or computers all together. Reason and Reaktor are FAR more than presets, and premade ensembles.
You cant get the meat out of ANY program, without getting REALLY dirty with the deep capabilities that BOTH programs offer. There are plenty of things that you cannot do in reaktor, that you can in reason, just based on the ram handling.
Plus, the Combi, as well as the wiring potential are unmatched as Ive seen.
But If you want to piss on both of these, go with Max.
Of course you can do things different ways in one program and another. welcome to computer music...or computers all together. Reason and Reaktor are FAR more than presets, and premade ensembles.
You cant get the meat out of ANY program, without getting REALLY dirty with the deep capabilities that BOTH programs offer. There are plenty of things that you cannot do in reaktor, that you can in reason, just based on the ram handling.
Plus, the Combi, as well as the wiring potential are unmatched as Ive seen.
But If you want to piss on both of these, go with Max.
Reason like any virtual instrument be it Reaktor or A - Z brand VSTi has it's own sonic footprint.
That's is why I still find it 100% useful.
It sounds quite different too Reaktor or P5'd Dimension (which is superb BTW) or Kubik or Foorius or Karma KX modular.
To me it's more pleasing soncially to mix those different grains and textures and engage in the sonic interplay that blend yields.
I wouldn't work with one single hardware workstation only for exactly the same reason's.
You need sonic variety and spice in a mix.
Reason as stated is for me my Virtual "Triton" or "Yamaha/Roland" workhorse.
It supplies all the bread and butter goodness I need in spades.
The rest is the magic fairy dust that takes something from good to great.
Each too their own though I guess.
PS:Having a laugh with you Forge and the irony of the turn of tables with respect too Reason.
Actually Reason 3 is what made me stay with Reason.
It's a far more robust app sonically and workwise for me now.
That's is why I still find it 100% useful.
It sounds quite different too Reaktor or P5'd Dimension (which is superb BTW) or Kubik or Foorius or Karma KX modular.
To me it's more pleasing soncially to mix those different grains and textures and engage in the sonic interplay that blend yields.
I wouldn't work with one single hardware workstation only for exactly the same reason's.
You need sonic variety and spice in a mix.
Reason as stated is for me my Virtual "Triton" or "Yamaha/Roland" workhorse.
It supplies all the bread and butter goodness I need in spades.
The rest is the magic fairy dust that takes something from good to great.
Each too their own though I guess.
PS:Having a laugh with you Forge and the irony of the turn of tables with respect too Reason.
Actually Reason 3 is what made me stay with Reason.
It's a far more robust app sonically and workwise for me now.
My aren't the wings of butterflies beautiful and do they not make wonderful perturbations.....
erm...which one? there were a few...computo wrote:sorry, that arguement doesnt hold much water.
.
I used reason almost exclusively and released 3 commercial tracks where the meat of it was all reason, I have got very down and dirty with it and used to sing it's praises like an evangelist, but I still dont think it sounds as good as the Native instruments stuff, and in my world it's been well and truly superceeded...
look I'm not trying to dump on anyone elses methods, the guy asked why and I told him.
Hey Forge I wouldn't sweat it mate.
Nor should you feel the need to justify your position.
If Reason doesn't "do it' for you it quite simply doesn't do it.
Not a big issue from where I sit.
I can perfectly well understand that Reason isn't an app that suits everyone.
If i had "Komplete" I wouldn't have any need for it either to be truthful what with Kontakt , FM7 , Absynth , Pro53 , Reaktor and all.
Lets be honest the Komplete package is one mutha of a sonic suite.
Quite possibly the best suite of sonic tools produced by any of the major VST players.
Infact contact would make dr.rex / redrum / nnxt totally rendundant if I had it.
Reaktor has better subtractive synths than Subtractor.
Though Maelstrom has that certain something I just love and for me the Combinator opens up a huge avenue of exploratory sonic work.
However I rely on midi sequencing and rewiring from within LIVE and only use the Mclass eq's / comps etc now and the REV7000 , Scream and B512.
All other effects processing is handled by either Reaktor / Pluggo Jnr / Smex effects and Lives built in effect suite.
I couldn't afford Komplete in a month of Sunday's.
If it gets your mojo going I'm all the happier for you myself.
Nor should you feel the need to justify your position.
If Reason doesn't "do it' for you it quite simply doesn't do it.
Not a big issue from where I sit.
I can perfectly well understand that Reason isn't an app that suits everyone.
If i had "Komplete" I wouldn't have any need for it either to be truthful what with Kontakt , FM7 , Absynth , Pro53 , Reaktor and all.
Lets be honest the Komplete package is one mutha of a sonic suite.
Quite possibly the best suite of sonic tools produced by any of the major VST players.
Infact contact would make dr.rex / redrum / nnxt totally rendundant if I had it.
Reaktor has better subtractive synths than Subtractor.
Though Maelstrom has that certain something I just love and for me the Combinator opens up a huge avenue of exploratory sonic work.
However I rely on midi sequencing and rewiring from within LIVE and only use the Mclass eq's / comps etc now and the REV7000 , Scream and B512.
All other effects processing is handled by either Reaktor / Pluggo Jnr / Smex effects and Lives built in effect suite.
I couldn't afford Komplete in a month of Sunday's.
If it gets your mojo going I'm all the happier for you myself.
My aren't the wings of butterflies beautiful and do they not make wonderful perturbations.....
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Left Eye Dominant
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Isn"t comparing Reason and Reaktor a bit like comparing chalk and cheese? Reason is a self contained studio that is great for putting a tune or more specifically, ideas together with the least amount of fuss. Reaktor is the sound designers dream with a learning curve steeper than the North face of the Eiger. As far as Reasons synths sounding outdated - is the Minimoog outdated? The Korg MS20?
In an ideal world I would have both Reason and Reaktor - but this ain"t an ideal world . so I"ll have to make do with Reason.
In an ideal world I would have both Reason and Reaktor - but this ain"t an ideal world . so I"ll have to make do with Reason.