First question and it's probably stupid

[Rolo Tomasi]

Hey guys and gals,

Please bear with me I'm a long time Logic user new to Live. I really like it. I just had a quick question about sends in Live.

I have 12 sends per track. Meaning I can send signal from one instrument to 12 different effects on 12 separate return tracks correct? My question though is if I'm only allowed 1 effect per return track why is it possible to see all 12 dials (A-L) in one return track?

[jestermgee]

Only stupid question is the one that never gets asked.

You may be a bit confused.

There are a possible 12 return tracks that can be added to Live which are available to ALL tracks to send to. YOu can, in fact, load as many effects on a send as you like but they will be in sequence with each other.

Your audio/midi tracks can send audio to one of these with the send dials which is processed and output to the master.

It is also possible to force a return track to not send audio to the Master, but instead send it to another return track so you can chain them together. This is useful in some cases such as creating "busses" so you can have processing that is applied to separate groups then all channeled through a "master" return.

If that hasn't offered an answer, maybe post an image with an arrow of what you are talking about.

[Rolo Tomasi]

Thanks jestermgee

So what you are saying then is that I have 12 sends so I can actually have 12 effects PER return track? How/where would they be labeled?

And then if I had 12 return tracks with 12 effects on each I could in essentially have 144 effects?

YOu can, in fact, load as many effects on a send as you like but they will be in sequence with each other.

Right. They are all at the bottom if I do that. Can I see them listed alphabetically one by one in the Return Track column though like you would in Logic or ProTools?

[jestermgee]

Um, no that's not what I am saying.

A return track (or channel) is just somewhere you can load some effects you want in a chain to send audio from a track.

Lets take a single return track with a reverb on it. ANY tracks you have in Live will now be able to send some of their audio to that "return track" with the reverb to add some reverb to that tracks sound. If you have an EQ on the return then it gets reverb + eq on it.

If you are looking AT the return track and wondering about the fact they also have listed knobs as "sends" this is ONLY if you want to send the signal from one return to another for whatever reason.

No idea if I have made that clearer or more confusing but sends/returns work the same way basically in every DAW or mixing console so may be an idea to hit youtube and look into how sends/returns work

[fishmonkey]

a return track is just a specialised audio track designed to have one or more effects loaded on it, most commonly used so that a single set of effects can be shared by multiple audio tracks.

i think what might be confusing you is that Live also provides the ability for return tracks to be sent to other return tracks. you can even send a return track to itself to create a feedback loop if you want. you will notice that the return track sends are disabled by default, as the most common way of using a return track is to simply have its output going straight to the master track.

Live also gives you the ability to feed the output from a return track back into an audio track (using the Audio To drop-down menu). just so you know, this creates a small amount of latency, and also potentially feedback loops.

there are a bunch of reasons why you might choose to use sends, including:
- to lower CPU usage, by not having multiple copies of the same effect on multiple tracks
- to increase cohesiveness by having the combined signal from multiple tracks feeding a set of effects, especially compressors and reverbs
- to create dub-style delay loops
- to play with feedback loops as a composition technique
- to create submixes, e.g. for headphone feeds

for example, a single compressor with all your drum tracks going through it is going to react and shape the sound differently than 6 separate compressors each receiving one of the drum elements (kick, snare, hi-hats, etc.)

[Rolo Tomasi]

Yes I completely understand what a bus does. That's not what I'm asking. In Logic for example a Aux track can have multiple effects on it. So for example if you were mixing drums you could bus each individual piece of kit and/or mic to an Aux track with EQ, Comp, Reverb, etc. And all of those effects would be seen vertically on that Aux track like a mixer. I think with the way Live is laid out you can't do that and they are at the bottom instead. Which is fine I guess.

The other confusing thing about them is the A-F labeling. It appears that you can only send A to A, B-B, C-C, etc. And if that's the case why show all the A-F dials on one send if that send can only receive signal from one letter (for lack of a better word). In Logic you can send output from a bus anywhere it's not constrained to only one location. Does that make sense? I feel like I'm still not making sense. I apologize. I swear I'm not a newb but I def sound like one. I really should just take a few minutes and read the manual lol.

[miyaru]

Reading the manual is always good.......

But: they answer was clear - a return track is like an aux in Logic, and can have many fx's per returntrack, not limiting you to twelve fx's.

So you can place an EQ after a reverb on the same return track for instance.

[fishmonkey]

Yes I completely understand what a bus does. That's not what I'm asking. In Logic for example a Aux track can have multiple effects on it. So for example if you were mixing drums you could bus each individual piece of kit and/or mic to an Aux track with EQ, Comp, Reverb, etc. And all of those effects would be seen vertically on that Aux track like a mixer. I think with the way Live is laid out you can't do that and they are at the bottom instead. Which is fine I guess.

yes, the effects are displayed horizontally in Live, not vertically like most other DAWS. apart from that, yes of course you can have more than one effect on a return track.

as someone who has used quite a few different analog and digital mixing desks, i'm not sure what you mean by "like a mixer" though.

there is an Options.txt flag which turns on a small vertical device/plugin display for each track, but i'm not sure if it works in Live 10.

The other confusing thing about them is the A-F labeling. It appears that you can only send A to A, B-B, C-C, etc. And if that's the case why show all the A-F dials on one send if that send can only receive signal from one letter (for lack of a better word). In Logic you can send output from a bus anywhere it's not constrained to only one location. Does that make sense? I feel like I'm still not making sense. I apologize. I swear I'm not a newb but I def sound like one. I really should just take a few minutes and read the manual lol.

it would help to use consistent terminology...

sends and returns come in unique pairs. the send is the sender and the return is the receiver. each time you create a return track, it comes with its own unique paired send, which appears on all standard audio tracks and on every return track.

it still seems to me that you are not grokking that each return track also has sends on it...

[yur2die4]

Sometimes people send Returns to other Returns for feedback, for complex chains, or even for some basic cases like ‘my delay effect should also have some of that reverb’.

You can turn any of those Send knobs on and get your dub on. But if you don’t intend to use that particular routing, maybe save your computer the stress and keep them off.

[Rolo Tomasi]

yes, the effects are displayed horizontally in Live, not vertically like most other DAWS. apart from that, yes of course you can have more than one effect on a return track.

-So basically my signal chain is displayed right to left along the bottom instead of top to bottom (like a channel strip) then right?

-I can have as many plugins as I want per return track but I only have 12 return tracks to use (not that I'd really need more than that). Yes?

[miyaru]

Left to right, that's it!

[Rolo Tomasi]

Lol I meant left to right

[fishmonkey]

-I can have as many plugins as I want per return track but I only have 12 return tracks to use (not that I'd really need more than that). Yes?

yep, you got it.