Grouped Tracks & Exporting Stems Problem

[copb]

Hey friends,

So I have been puzzled by how to properly export stems for mixing while having grouped tracks. As described on Ableton's site, when exporting individual tracks (with return and master effects selected in export settings), individual tracks are exported along with the group level as it's own audio file:



The problem is that the individual tracks DO NOT pass through the group level effects before they hit master, meaning that only the group audio files have the group level effects baked in. This seems like a big deal for anyone trying to simply export individual tracks to a mixing engineer without having to solidify each group's mix prior to export. The "additional steps" they describe above does not solve including group effects on individual track exports.

I have resorted to manually exporting each track individually by soloing it - this ensures that it passes through group effects, which takes us back to Live 9 and is super time consuming.

Am I doing something wrong? If not, I feel like this should be a big priority for another option in the export settings - to include GROUP effects in individual track exports.

I hope my ramble makes sense, but seems like huge downfall to the current STEM workflow. Thanks!

Bryan

[Atticus R]

Hey Bryan, have you figured a better way to export stems? I'm somewhat new to Ableton and working with audio more seriously. It seems like this would be a major flaw with folders. What do audio engineers typically want when you send them stems? Would it make more sense if the folder track exported ONLY the wet signal of all its plugins and then the tracks within the folder would have the dry signal so they could mix them together to their ear? I'm getting ready to export stems for multiple projects to work on them with a friend who uses Pro Tools and I'm confused what's the best way to organize my tracks before exporting stems. I wonder if I should be creating return tracks and putting on my effects I usually put on folders there and sending from the folder track.

[Richie Witch]

I can see why it works this way... in a real recording studio, the stem would be a print of the group, not the individual tracks inside a group. The group is what gets sent to one channel of the tape, in the old world.

In cases like the one in this thread, using sends/returns seems like a more "real-life" application, and Live now allows you to work that way when exporting stems, which was a commonly-asked-for feature previously.

Just my 2 cents. Everyone has to find the way that works for them.

[[jur]]

The problem is that the individual tracks DO NOT pass through the group level effects before they hit master, meaning that only the group audio files have the group level effects baked in.

That's correct, and that's also what the KB article you're referring to is saying, there's no problem here. It seems like you misread something.
It's easy to remember : tracks are exported post-fader. Period. It doesn't matter what type of track it is.

[[jur]]

Hey Bryan, have you figured a better way to export stems? I'm somewhat new to Ableton and working with audio more seriously. It seems like this would be a major flaw with folders. What do audio engineers typically want when you send them stems? Would it make more sense if the folder track exported ONLY the wet signal of all its plugins and then the tracks within the folder would have the dry signal so they could mix them together to their ear? I'm getting ready to export stems for multiple projects to work on them with a friend who uses Pro Tools and I'm confused what's the best way to organize my tracks before exporting stems. I wonder if I should be creating return tracks and putting on my effects I usually put on folders there and sending from the folder track.

There's no flaw, and audio enginneers need different kind of stems depending on the song. It also depends on what you want them to do to your stuff. Working with stems is a matter of working around limitations.
The Returns FX is THE obvious example of how exporting stems can be a headache... but an artistic headache actually. Technically, the machine will just do what you're asking for.

[Atticus R]

That makes sense, thanks for the reply! It seems like everyday I'm learning how much I don't know. Are there general rules I can try to follow for where I should be placing my plugins? Time based things go on returns or compression usually goes on folders or anything like that?

[Zounds]

Sorry guys but I'm not understanding this point. (Perhaps because my lack of knowledged related with English)
Could someone clarify, please?

So... I have some tracks grouped and I have some effects on the group.
The export will always get the efx and level from the group?
No matter the option selected in the export? If I select "Export all individual" or "Selected only" it will always get the group efx and level?

How do I get the tracks un-affected by the group level and efx?
Only if I delete the group?

Thank you very much.