Zero Footprint PC ... no laptop!

supster · Post by **supster** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 5:53 pm

I'm looking into alternative solutions to using a laptop for gigging. Why?:

- too cramped, screen too small

- laptop adds to the "hey im checking email up here" visual factor

- non-standard components, cant upgrade or troubleshoot hardware as easily

- everyone has one

I came acrost something called a "zero footprint" PC. ie. all of the components are built into the keyboard unit. the harddrive in particular is standard size, easily swappable.

http://www.cybernetman.com/default.cfm?DocId=9000

This will allow you to have the entire brains of your setup in one unit, and allows you to use a much larger seperate screen that you can place whereever is comfortable wherever you are.

a pretty well loaded out unit is a little more than $1000. thier testimonials seem to indicate professional IT depts using these continuously in large installations with almost no downtime. (of course they dont post teh complaints, but ... )

disadvantages: no AMD processors (Live runs better on them) - no Firewire support on the model that allows CPU speeds above 2Ghz. unlike laptop keyboard has no "cover" so it takes more care not to damage it in transit.

has anybody looked into this kind of solution? any other disadvantages you can think of / see?

the ideal unit would be flat or near flat like a laptop, with no keyboard, so you would actually put one of your controllers (like the m-audio triggerfinger,say) on top of it to save space. then run a mini keyboard out where its convienient and inconspicous

thoughts?
.

innerdreamrecords.com · Post by **innerdreamrecords.com** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 5:57 pm

laptop adds to the "hey im checking email up here" visual factor

You could build an enclosure so nobody could see the damn thing, laptop that is.

supster · Post by **supster** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:03 pm

innerdreamrecords.com wrote:
laptop adds to the "hey im checking email up here" visual factor
You could build an enclosure so nobody could see the damn thing, laptop that is.

yes this is basically the idea. save stage / DJ booth space by making the computer as inconspicuous as possible. use the extra space for your larger screen - your controllers - and your CDJ / other FX units.

but the solution has to be:

- fast or faster than an equivelant laptop would be
- has all the connectors / components available for audio interface / firewire / usb units
- has networking to transfer files from your studio rig or wherever
- must be at least or more durable than a laptop

what enclosures are availble for something like that? are you saying there are solutions i can buy to build my own? im doing research but am pretty out of the loop on this ...
.
.

innerdreamrecords.com · Post by **innerdreamrecords.com** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:08 pm

There are PC's that fit in a rack for outboard gear, you could get a case like that and build a killer PC then it's all about the monitor, keyboard and mouse.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:54 pm

OK , Ive mentioned this before and no-one thought it was a good idea.
I'll try again

better img
http://touchq.new21.net/images/P5170052.JPG

Cache · Post by **Cache** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:29 pm

no matter how fancy/simple your set/controller is, you will still need to touch the keyboard to do stuff.

eg change views, drag clips/tracks to different channels

i think as long as your laptop doesn't hide your ugly mug,then you're ok. to the side even is better, something i haven't managed to achieve myself yet.
still playing with the laptop in front of me.

Cache

supster · Post by **supster** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:40 pm

Angstrom wrote:OK , Ive mentioned this before and no-one thought it was a good idea.
I'll try again

i think i see what you're getting at but im not sure ...

you mean this unit keeps your pc on the floor, and the screen stands hi at eye level and refracts the image into your eyes?

thier site is kind of sketchy, the info is terrible. what are you getting at?
./

quandry · Post by **quandry** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:52 pm

just a thought or two...you could use a laptop and add a second monitor. Or, if hiding stuff is the high priority, you could have your laptop stashed away under the table, and use an external monitor and external keyboard with said laptop--no one sees the laptop, you've got your bigger monitor, and have minimized other signs of the existence of a computer to a keyboard (and maybe a mouse?). Seems like if the visual issue is what you are concerned with, this solution would be about as minimal as possible--monitor, small keyboard, mouse.

Is it worth buying a whole new machine just to "trick" your audience? Is the presence of a laptop really that different from a monitor and keyboard? Does the audience even care? What is the intended audience response to the big monitor and keyboard vs. the laptop? I've seen a few acts locally that brought out full-blown desktops and big crt monitors and my audience response was that they can't afford a laptop, and that it sucks to set all that up and break it down. Granted, you aren't going this route with crts and desktop cpu, but given that the audience knows you are using a computer, they are left to wonder why you chose a your system over a simple laptop. Either way, you're still using a computer.

Ryan

supster · Post by **supster** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:03 pm

quandry wrote:Is it worth buying a whole new machine just to "trick" your audience? Is the presence of a laptop really that different from a monitor and keyboard?

no, those are not the main reasons ... main motivations are:

- space savings .. because you put other gear on top of the enclosure where your laptop would normally take up space and not allow this

this also allows you to buy a seperate, larger screen that you can now place where you want it / where it can fit at exactly the angle you want it.

- cost savings: because its cheaper .. you buy the components and build or order them in an enclosure. if you were to buy a laptop, AND another monitor, that kills this benefit

- better configurablitly: if the solution allows you to swap motherboard/PCI cards, hardrives, with basically standard components

- durability: if you put your rackmount into a road worthy case, it can handle flights and customs. maybe better than the laptop

and yes i think the right solutoin would look more professional and unique. but its a bonus, not a main issue

i'm looking at 1u server rackmount designs. this might be the way to go ..
.

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:05 pm

Tablet pcs, mate. They're fast (i think they're up to 2.0 gig centrino), relatively inexpensive, and at a 12" footprint, with touchscreen, you can't beat it. Heck, if you want you can have it in a backpack, and just have a fw cable coming out to the audio interface for sound and midi.

For seamless integration with your audience, I would make a setup that really rocked for monitor-less operation. Here's an idea: you could set up audio clips going to your cue out only, that instructed you on what to tweak, what the next scene was, and reminding you to drink more beer. No need for a tele-prompter, no need for email-face.

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:07 pm

supster wrote: no, those are not the main reasons ... main motivations are:
- space savings .. because you put other gear on top of the enclosure where your laptop would normally take up space and not allow this
[...]
i'm looking at 1u server rackmount designs. this might be the way to go ..

A cheap, powerful laptop with the lid CLOSED will do what you want. You can put a controller on it, and you can even stick it in a rack if you want

quandry · Post by **quandry** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:10 pm

now I get it.....Maybe check out sweetwater.com for some of their solid looking pc rackmount systems...dunno if I've ever seen a single rack sized computer yet, but I wouldn't be surprised at all. There's that cube pc thing thats been out for awhile, but probably not what you are looking for..

supster · Post by **supster** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:29 pm

Machinate wrote: Here's an idea: you could set up audio clips going to your cue out only, that instructed you on what to tweak, what the next scene was, and reminding you to drink more beer. No need for a tele-prompter, no need for email-face.

haha ... even better ... how about a 3D cybergoggle setup that projects live onto the back of the lens ..

wait why am i laughing at this idea

supster · Post by **supster** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:04 pm

Machinate wrote:Tablet pcs, mate. They're fast (i think they're up to 2.0 gig centrino), relatively inexpensive ....

yeah i just started looking into this, could be great. Except:

- they're not inexpensive at all. decent power (even close to 2ghz) with enough RAM and features is close to 2 grand

- Windows XP Tablet edition is iffy. good with audio? dunno, people are saying its bloated

- slow hardrives... theyre not at 7200 rpm, or even 5400 in some cases

- lack of firewire support? not many seem to have it

noisegeek · Post by **noisegeek** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:19 am

While I understand the motivation, I don't see how the "zero-footprint" pc is a better solution than the laptop. It actually has a larger footprint than a laptop, and isn't built with the durabilty of a dedicated portable solution. If you're really that unsatisfied with laptops, I'd suggest building your own solution. I'm in the process of building my setup (pc, audio interface, controllers, etc.) into an old keyboard flight-case. There are plenty of resources online for custom case-building.
And for people who are concerned with what they look like to the audience, they can build in as many flashing lights and fog machines as they want.