Why do my exported recordings sound like burning garbage?

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
EDHEDH
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Re: Why do my exported recordings sound like burning garbage?

Post by EDHEDH » Thu Dec 16, 2021 3:31 pm

miyaru wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 3:09 pm
What often is used next to the nice sounding monitor setup is a supplement of grotboxes - which don't sound nice at all. If it sound good enough on these kind of monitors, it will sound ok everywhere. That's the thought behind it. I'm looking for Auralex/Avantone ones for this function. They are single driver full range without ports, so ideal for mixing in this purpose.

https://www.dv247.com/en_GB/GBP/Avanton ... 011013-000
Thanks for the tip !
But that's a lot of money ... to get a bad sounding device ;-)
Don't cheaper, reliable grotboxes exist for the purpose to be achieved ?

[jur]
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Re: Why do my exported recordings sound like burning garbage?

Post by [jur] » Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:18 pm

You don't need to mix for every environnement, but get 1 mix that's a good compromise.
Way cheaper than buying more gear is to... use reference tracks. Find tracks that you think sound good on your studio speakers and in your car, and compare your mix balance to these tracks when mixing.
Learning how your speakers sound in your room is fondamental, without this you can't do much.
Also, mixing is a long learning process. Similarly, perfecting your listening abilities/ears takes time and patience.
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miyaru
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Re: Why do my exported recordings sound like burning garbage?

Post by miyaru » Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:58 pm

[jur] wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:18 pm
You don't need to mix for every environnement, but get 1 mix that's a good compromise.
Way cheaper than buying more gear is to... use reference tracks. Find tracks that you think sound good on your studio speakers and in your car, and compare your mix balance to these tracks when mixing.
Learning how your speakers sound in your room is fondamental, without this you can't do much.
Also, mixing is a long learning process. Similarly, perfecting your listening abilities/ears takes time and patience.
Also true, this is how I done till now and proberly a while to come as the grotboxes are expensive! 8O
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jlgrimes
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Re: Why do my exported recordings sound like burning garbage?

Post by jlgrimes » Thu Dec 23, 2021 4:45 pm

[jur] wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:18 pm
You don't need to mix for every environnement, but get 1 mix that's a good compromise.
Way cheaper than buying more gear is to... use reference tracks. Find tracks that you think sound good on your studio speakers and in your car, and compare your mix balance to these tracks when mixing.
Learning how your speakers sound in your room is fondamental, without this you can't do much.
Also, mixing is a long learning process. Similarly, perfecting your listening abilities/ears takes time and patience.
This.

There is an art to properly referencing tracks namely making sure most likely mastered reference track is the same loudness as mix otherwise you will be fighting an uphill battle of trying to get your mix as aggressive sounding as reference track which is usually a losing battle, but once track is level matched, the elements, arrangement, and mix decisions will start standing out in mix, and you will more clearly hear the steps you need to take. Main thing is to get the levels, EQ, Individual track compression right, but you will learn alot by properly referencing good tracks like how loud elements should be, Tonal balance, Use of compression, reverb etc. Even in great studios with great montioring and great speakers, most engineers will use some references as in mixing it is very easy to stray out in left field in think something sounds great when it can fall apart on other systems or simply is not up to par with already released music. This is probably even more important than room treatment because most people especially newer people have no idea on how to visualize a mix in their head (which is actually very hard to do even for an advanced professional). Kind of similar to artists usings photos of people to draw off of. It is much harder to draw a photo of someone without a picture of them that only a small amount of people can accurately do (even if you see this face everyday). Mixing is much like this.


That said also there are certain things you can do that are relatively affordable that can give you some better monitoring options.

1. Good decent pair of headphones is way more affordable than a good monitoring/room treatment setup. That said it can be hard learning how to adapt to listening in headphones as they can often make most elements sound clearer/better, but if your room treatment is really bad they can help with bass frequencies your room/monitoring setup can't reproduce and hearing subtleties in mix like reverb qualities, send effects more clearly etc. Kind of like the microscopes of speakers.

2. Very bad pair of speakers. Go all out cheap on this one. A $10 pair of PC speakers from a PC store can often tell you things a great pair of speakers can't. Your bass will be most likely be nonexistent, so you can better hear techniques reference mix uses to get their bass to stand out on weak no bass systems. And sometimes bad speakers can highlight bad frequencies that you might be missing on good pair of monitors. Some bad frequency buildups can be hard to hear on a full range system as your ears will be focused on a wider spectrum and certain frequencies might play back great on decent systems but sound really horrilbe on cheaper systems so this is always a good cheap option. Teddy Riley was quoted in using a cheap pair of Radio Shack speakers as an alternate reference pair. This is also one of the reasons the Yamaha NS-10s where a standard pair of monitors. Not because they sounded great but because they were considered a "typical" home stereo setup and they used them to make adjustments that their music sounded great on these typical setups as most people are using them. Nowadays people are using Smartphones, HDTVs/PC monitors, cheap earphones (often with bad speakers) to listen to music. So the best you can get your stuff to sound on these type of systems the better. I wouldn't make this my main monitoring setup but it is a great option if you want to hear how something sounds on a crappy setup (which many people use to listen to music, and many great engineers know how to make stuff sound great on these, and many amateur mixes fall completely apart on.)

3. DIY/cheap room treatment. Proper speaker placement is always something that can be revisited. It might even help to get a referral from a Sound Treatment company who sometimes do free tips in order to sell you a bass trap/room treatment package. Some will ask for pictures of studio, room measurements etc. A good company will usually tell you if your speaker placement is not ideal which is something you can easily correct without equipment. Ableton Live's CPU use simulator is also a nice tool to let you hear your bass issues. Take the sine wave generator, take it down to 40hz and sweep up to about 300hz. If you hear drops and increases in volume, you are hearing the effects of your room's low end response (listen again on headphones to hear how it sounds with minimal change in volume). Clapping your hands is also a good way to hear your high end flutter echo. If you hear a metallic ring or too much reverb, that is often not good but that is more of an artistic decision on how much you want to control this. It is usually not good to eliminate this completely as it will sound unnatural, but controlling it is the key. But if you are good with your hands, Bass traps, and Sound Absorption panels can be made fairly cheaply and there are plenty of tutorials on Youtube on how to do so. But even if you don't want to go full room treatment, Couches can help absorb bass, thick comforters on walls can help tame reflections etc. It won't be as ideal as full room treatment but should most likely help if you have no treatment at all.

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Re: Why do my exported recordings sound like burning garbage?

Post by Pitch Black » Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:28 pm

^^^ Preach it, jlgrimes!!! 8)

Great post/advice. The above is all you need to know about the basics of mixing music.
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jestermgee
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Re: Why do my exported recordings sound like burning garbage?

Post by jestermgee » Fri Dec 24, 2021 1:11 am

Great list of advice there, it's clear jlgrimes learned the same techniques and suggestions over the years that we all have.

I would also add on the suggestion of a cheap set of speakers to throw your music onto anything you can play it on. After all, you probably like what you make and love to listen to it all the time, I am sure your friends and family will love it too (well, at least pretend to). Chuck it in the middle of a playlist of songs you listen to in the car, on your TV or on that cheap Bluetooth speaker in the kitchen and see if it is noticeably different than everything else. Take mental notes on what you hear and focus adjusting only one area at a time, not making heaps of changes, then render and listen again the next day.

Another trick I used (still do) when I had have a good project which I really like but am not sure if my mixing changes are making it better or worse over time is to always remember to save every mix attempt as a new file (just add a number on the end) then render out all these attempts, throw it all on a USB and listen in the car or wherever on random. I use to chuck things on in the car (back before USB in cars was a thing so I would have to burn a CD) and study them on my hourly trip into work and back when I had a huge multi-amp/sub system I would often find mixes just had too much bass. If you don't like how it sounds, skip and keep going till you hear what you consider the best then look at what the file name is. I use to often find the better sounding one was often version 4 and not version 35.... Helped me to dial things in a little quicker.

I recall when I was in my early 20s at the beginning of 2000 one song I was really happy with I just wanted "perfect" and it took my inexperienced self over a year to mix and about 60 versions as every time I changed something it caused something else to sound crap. The fix was literally to use better source material as some of the instruments (the bassline) were sample based and not good but took a while to learn that and after I got something I was pretty happy with I realised it was similar in mixing to one of my very early attempts, just the bass wasn't real good because it had a stereo phase issue which was not evident on the headphones I was using to mix with but was when played on a mono sub in my car. I couldn't believe it sounded so much better just switching out the bass instrument and I was able to bring it WAY down again which made everything else sound much better, helped open my ears where now I would notice that by mono referencing the mix or just looking at the behaviour of a spectrograph but this was 20 years ago and I had none of that experience.

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Re: Why do my exported recordings sound like burning garbage?

Post by H20nly » Fri Dec 24, 2021 11:28 pm

I agree 100% with the last few posts

I use my car as a grotbox.

I get a mix sounding as good as I can on monitors. Switch to headphones (invest in good ones with a flat response) to finish the mixing. Then, when I think it sounds good, I test with crappy PC speakers and/or try it on iPhone headphones - those can tell you if bass is way too heavy and represent how others will listen to your music.

Finally I listen in my car… That’s the true test - a familiar environment with stereo and its own nuances that affect all the music I listen to equally

If you’re gonna throw money it - headphones 1st, IMO
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