returning the Push 3 standalone

[Audivit]

Anyway, are you saying Push 3 non-standalone can do less than Push 2? Because yes that would be disappointing, but even then I’m confident it’ll catch up and I’m not getting rid of my Push 2.

No I'm saying that not considering MPE on the Push 3 & VSTs (and the access to the full Live) on Push 2, Push 3 standalone can do less than Push 2 in it's current state.

Eh … so discontent with a current feature set is the only reason to add a subsequent feature set? …. M’kay.

It is not the only reason obviously but It might play an important role though.

I really hope that this current unfortunate situation with bugs and hardware issues is going to fade quickly because I don't think it's healthy to only read negative stuff about Push 3, which is most likely just the sad consequence of prematurely releasing the product.
I do think that the product is potentially the best and most innovative groovebox/instrument of this decade, in fact I'll personally be keeping my Push 3 for dear life and I'm excited to see what's to come in the future..

[dcjams]

I really hope that this current unfortunate situation with bugs and hardware issues is going to fade quickly because I don't think it's healthy to only read negative stuff about Push 3, which is most likely just the sad consequence of prematurely releasing the product.

Why did they?! Facepalm. It wasn’t even as if anybody was expecting it.

I do think that the product is potentially the best and most innovative groovebox/instrument of this decade, in fact I'll personally be keeping my Push 3 for dear life and I'm excited to see what's to come in the future..

Agreed.

[Audivit]

Why did they?! Facepalm. It wasn’t even as if anybody was expecting it.

They said that Push 3 R&D started soon after Push 2 release in 2015, that's a good 8 years..

One could speculate that with the current global economic situation unfolding, the company wasn't any longer able to sustain the product development for much longer and needed liquidity, which would be understandable.

We would never know with certainty, but something happened for sure 'cause as you said in a previous post:

I've never met a single developer who wants to release software that's got bugs in it.

[TilliSound]

I understand your frustration.

Let me tell you that from the point of view of an old Push 2 user since launch date, I've bough into the Push 3S knowing that it would have been "unfinished" to a certain extent.
I also knew that the battery would act more of a backup emergency battery given the processor power consumption.

What I didn't expect was the following:

- Finding out that the software is almost on par with the old Push 2 with very few additional features to start with.

- The lack of updates a month after launch date.

- The lack of information from the company about a roadmap for the product development.

- The lack of participation and excitement from the company in this forum.


I hope that they will sort things out quickly, in the meantime I'm gonna keep my unit because I have faith in Ableton and the potential of this new machine is just really promising.

However I cannot hide my disappointment.

You said it! I can only underline all the points.
Above all, I don't understand Ableton's communication behaviour. After the influencers have done marketing on all channels, there is now silence everywhere. A few critical voices and nothing else.

[dcjams]

I understand your frustration.

Let me tell you that from the point of view of an old Push 2 user since launch date, I've bough into the Push 3S knowing that it would have been "unfinished" to a certain extent.
I also knew that the battery would act more of a backup emergency battery given the processor power consumption.

What I didn't expect was the following:

- Finding out that the software is almost on par with the old Push 2 with very few additional features to start with.

- The lack of updates a month after launch date.

- The lack of information from the company about a roadmap for the product development.

- The lack of participation and excitement from the company in this forum.


I hope that they will sort things out quickly, in the meantime I'm gonna keep my unit because I have faith in Ableton and the potential of this new machine is just really promising.

However I cannot hide my disappointment.

You said it! I can only underline all the points.
Above all, I don't understand Ableton's communication behaviour. After the influencers have done marketing on all channels, there is now silence everywhere. A few critical voices and nothing else.

Maybe they are managing to respond to the majority of people, maybe most people aren't having problems with it, and maybe most people are satisfied with the current feature set?

I mean, that's possible, right?

[TilliSound]

You don't have to be an insider to see the facts:
Ableton launches a very expensive and clearly not mature product.
Ableton itself admits that support is completely overloaded.
Conclusion: Ableton has massive problems.
There are now, as always, two possibilities:
- Deal with the problem openly and communicate proactively with customers.
- Trying to keep the problem quiet. Which in this day and age always backfires, as we know by now.

[TilliSound]

I understand your frustration.

Let me tell you that from the point of view of an old Push 2 user since launch date, I've bough into the Push 3S knowing that it would have been "unfinished" to a certain extent.
I also knew that the battery would act more of a backup emergency battery given the processor power consumption.

What I didn't expect was the following:

- Finding out that the software is almost on par with the old Push 2 with very few additional features to start with.

- The lack of updates a month after launch date.

- The lack of information from the company about a roadmap for the product development.

- The lack of participation and excitement from the company in this forum.


I hope that they will sort things out quickly, in the meantime I'm gonna keep my unit because I have faith in Ableton and the potential of this new machine is just really promising.

However I cannot hide my disappointment.

You said it! I can only underline all the points.
Above all, I don't understand Ableton's communication behaviour. After the influencers have done marketing on all channels, there is now silence everywhere. A few critical voices and nothing else.

Maybe they are managing to respond to the majority of people, maybe most people aren't having problems with it, and maybe most people are satisfied with the current feature set?

I mean, that's possible, right?

You don't have to be an insider to see the facts:
Ableton launches a very expensive and clearly not mature product.
Ableton itself admits that support is completely overloaded.
Conclusion: Ableton has massive problems.
There are now, as always, two possibilities:
- Deal with the problem openly and communicate proactively with customers.
- Trying to keep the problem quiet. Which in this day and age always backfires, as we know by now.

[dcjams]

You said it! I can only underline all the points.
Above all, I don't understand Ableton's communication behaviour. After the influencers have done marketing on all channels, there is now silence everywhere. A few critical voices and nothing else.

Maybe they are managing to respond to the majority of people, maybe most people aren't having problems with it, and maybe most people are satisfied with the current feature set?

I mean, that's possible, right?

You don't have to be an insider to see the facts:
Ableton launches a very expensive and clearly not mature product.
Ableton itself admits that support is completely overloaded.
Conclusion: Ableton has massive problems.
There are now, as always, two possibilities:
- Deal with the problem openly and communicate proactively with customers.
- Trying to keep the problem quiet. Which in this day and age always backfires, as we know by now.

There a teething problems as there are with any product but I think the whole thing is being blown way out of proportion. I don't think Ableton are trying to keep anything quiet, they're just getting on with it.

I've seen enough reputable reviews now that don't particularly ring the "immature product" or "riddled with bugs" alarm bell, that satisfy me there's nothing unusual about this release. The most recent of which is Simon Sherbourne's review for Sound on Sound magazine.

[dcjams]

You don't have to be an insider to see the facts:
Ableton launches a very expensive and clearly not mature product.

'Not mature product' isn't a fact it's a judgement based on expectations.

Ableton itself admits that support is completely overloaded.
Conclusion: Ableton has massive problems.

That's not the only conclusion. They could be overloaded with stupid questions. "Why doesn't it have arrangement view?" Well, we never said it did. Facepalm.

There are now, as always, two possibilities:
- Deal with the problem openly and communicate proactively with customers.
- Trying to keep the problem quiet. Which in this day and age always backfires, as we know by now.

There's a third possibility. Ableton are dealing with everything they're just not standing on a soapbox and making grand gestures, loudly and publicly eviscerating themselves to satisfy a handul of people.

I'd much rather they dealt with people individually and directly rather than waste time preparing statements, finding who to blame for alleged transgressions, moping around with their tale between their legs, yadda yadda.

[Audivit]

'Not mature product' isn't a fact it's a judgement based on expectations.

I disagree on that, I think it is more than clear enough the product itself is not "mature".

Hardware issues aside:
- There are instances in which clips are disappearing from the pad grid in session mode.
- Some buttons are not available until you change instrument page a few times.
- Available packs not showing up until restart.
- LFO and Envelope Follower not mappable to any parameters.
- Mono Aftertouch getting stuck.
- User Mode missing.
- MIDI clocking & latency issues.
- Inability to move track position.

I mean the list goes on and on...

[dcjams]

Put it like this, across various forums, YoutTube and other sources, I see about fifteen to twenty people complaining. Even if Ableton have only shipped a thousand units, that's 2% of users unhappy. 2% more than it should be but not the shitshow people are making it out to be.

Now you could argue that the others are unhappy and just not saying anything. But you have no more evidence for that than me asserting they're not saying anything because they're happy.

If you want to see what a real product launch fuck up looks like, one that actually lights up the internet, try Googling the Cyberpunk 2077 debacle or the more recent fumble with the PC version of The Last of Us. Different product category, sure, but it gives some perspective.

[Audivit]

Now you could argue that the others are unhappy and just not saying anything. But you have no more evidence for that than me asserting they're not saying anything because they're happy.

We have evidence there's enough unhappy people to overwhelm the entire support team of the company to the point some customers are waiting to receive instructions for returning their product for days!

[dcjams]

Now you could argue that the others are unhappy and just not saying anything. But you have no more evidence for that than me asserting they're not saying anything because they're happy.

We have evidence there's enough unhappy people to overwhelm the entire support team of the company to the point some customers are waiting to receive instructions for returning their product for days!

No you don’t have that evidence. Not all support tickets are complaints. There’s a host of other things they can be.

[dcjams]

I just don’t get why people criticise manufacturers and influencers for hyperbole during a launch and then exercise it themselves when they identify problems.

[Audivit]

No you don’t have that evidence. Not all support tickets are complaints. There’s a host of other things they can be.

Ok, so do you think people are sending support tickets to thank the company because they are surprised by the stability of the software and the reliability of the hardware?

Do you think that the majority of people buying such expensive gear are going to need support to find how to turn their unit on and plug a cable in?

With all the bugs customers are experiencing after shelling out 2k or more, do you thing it is normal behaviour to have no official communications from the company about the situation and not even a meaningful software update in a month time after the release?

It seems to me that you're in denial and minimising the issue..