returning the Push 3 standalone

[TilliSound]

'Not mature product' isn't a fact it's a judgement based on expectations.

I disagree on that, I think it is more than clear enough the product itself is not "mature".

Hardware issues aside:
- There are instances in which clips are disappearing from the pad grid in session mode.
- Some buttons are not available until you change instrument page a few times.
- Available packs not showing up until restart.
- LFO and Envelope Follower not mappable to any parameters.
- Mono Aftertouch getting stuck.
- User Mode missing.
- MIDI clocking & latency issues.
- Inability to move track position.

I mean the list goes on and on...

I wouldn't waste time with a troll (dcjams) who doesn't have a single argument and just writes all over the forum with his nonsense.

[Audivit]

Agreed, he doesn't even own the damn thing, he has one on preorder. Come on!

[dcjams]

No you don’t have that evidence. Not all support tickets are complaints. There’s a host of other things they can be.

Ok, so do you think people are sending support tickets to thank the company because they are surprised by the stability of the software and the reliability of the hardware?

Do you think that the majority of people buying such expensive gear are going to need support to find how to turn their unit on and plug a cable in?

With all the bugs customers are experiencing after shelling out 2k or more, do you thing it is normal behaviour to have no official communications from the company about the situation and not even a meaningful software update in a month time after the release?

It seems to me that you're in denial and minimising the issue..

There isn’t a ‘situation’.

Having released multiple large software projects in the course of my day job over a number of decades, I can tell you that the majority of support tickets are ‘how do I do this or that’.

People don’t read manuals. They just contact support.

[dcjams]

'Not mature product' isn't a fact it's a judgement based on expectations.

I disagree on that, I think it is more than clear enough the product itself is not "mature".

Hardware issues aside:
- There are instances in which clips are disappearing from the pad grid in session mode.
- Some buttons are not available until you change instrument page a few times.
- Available packs not showing up until restart.
- LFO and Envelope Follower not mappable to any parameters.
- Mono Aftertouch getting stuck.
- User Mode missing.
- MIDI clocking & latency issues.
- Inability to move track position.

I mean the list goes on and on...

I wouldn't waste time with a troll (dcjams) who doesn't have a single argument and just writes all over the forum with his nonsense.

Haha, that didn’t take long. I’m a troll because you don’t agree with me. Nice.

[TilliSound]

No you don’t have that evidence. Not all support tickets are complaints. There’s a host of other things they can be.

Ok, so do you think people are sending support tickets to thank the company because they are surprised by the stability of the software and the reliability of the hardware?

Do you think that the majority of people buying such expensive gear are going to need support to find how to turn their unit on and plug a cable in?

With all the bugs customers are experiencing after shelling out 2k or more, do you thing it is normal behaviour to have no official communications from the company about the situation and not even a meaningful software update in a month time after the release?

It seems to me that you're in denial and minimising the issue..

There isn’t a ‘situation’.

Having released multiple large software projects in the course of my day job over a number of decades, I can tell you that the majority of support tickets are ‘how do I do this or that’.

People don’t read manuals. They just contact support.

You are a busybody, nothing more.

[dcjams]

Ok, so do you think people are sending support tickets to thank the company because they are surprised by the stability of the software and the reliability of the hardware?

Do you think that the majority of people buying such expensive gear are going to need support to find how to turn their unit on and plug a cable in?

With all the bugs customers are experiencing after shelling out 2k or more, do you thing it is normal behaviour to have no official communications from the company about the situation and not even a meaningful software update in a month time after the release?

It seems to me that you're in denial and minimising the issue..

There isn’t a ‘situation’.

Having released multiple large software projects in the course of my day job over a number of decades, I can tell you that the majority of support tickets are ‘how do I do this or that’.

People don’t read manuals. They just contact support.

You are a busybody, nothing more.

And you have nothing but personal insults because you’ve lost the argument and you know it.

Whatever. Get rid of your Push 3’s. I don’t care. I’ll make the most of mine when it arrives and you’ll be doing something else without one.

The world will continue to turn.

But do come back here in 6 months time and realise the people who were talking nonsense are the people who were saying this is some kind of disastrous, bungled product release.

It isn’t. Quit the flouncing and melodrama. “I’m returning my Push 3 because I’m having a tantrum”. Great story!

[[erm]]

Let’s keep it civil please, there’s no need for anyone here to resort to insults.

[Machinesworking]

I'm cancelling my preorder as well. I'm pretty confident that Ableton will figure out the hardware issues, take care of people with defective units etc.
The problem for me is simple, Push 3 is not really capable in stand alone of writing an entire song, you can set up a bunch of loops in Session and that's really it. Push 3 stand alone when used to start a song cannot use but one time signature. P3 SA has no Follow Actions, no Arrangement View and no way to edit an arrangement. Everything else aside, this means that P3 SA is not going to help you finish songs. You can write more starts of songs, and more unfinished Session View arrangements. I see no benefit to this in my case and IMO in most peoples cases. I travel quite a bit, so an all in one hardware device is appealing, last month setting up Push 2, a laptop, another controller and an audio interface in hotel rooms and on the jobs is not ideal, awkward at best. So I was super excited about P3 SA, then the limitations just killed that excitement.

It's absolutely fair to compare P3 SA to the other two software and hardware stand alone devices out before it, Maschine + and the MPC Live etc. Push 3 stand alone has all the same issues as Maschine + and more, I'm pretty sure Maschine + can use the song arranger for instance. The MPC line up frankly just beats the snot out of P3 SA right now, there's not even a slight challenge in terms of songwriting to be had. Multiple time signatures and tempos, a mature song mode, touch screens for editing MIDI or even entering notes, and the battery isn't sucked dry in minutes. The included instruments are good enough, I end up writing more with samples on it since that's it's strong point. Seriously unless you're just tied to the Ableton ecosystem, need MPE and can't stand the MPC sequencer etc. it's a no brainer which one is going to get work done. I canceled my pre order (which is still not cancelled after emailing and chatting with support ), and bought an MPC Live II Retro Edition, it's great and significantly cheaper than stand alone.

Basically I see not a single benefit from the stand alone software right now. it's never ever been a challenge for me or I would say anyone really, to write a nice loop in Live, with or without Push. It's always more of a challenge to actually finish a song, and if it's not possible in stand alone, then IMO it's not doing much to help the creative process. The other elephant in the room, Ableton were generous enough and eco friendly enough to offer the option for the future of upgraded computer components for stand alone. This is a really cool, and IMO in a couple years a lot of the issues I have with stand alone being an unfinished song loop machine creator will be solved, along with the hardware and software bugs people have mentioned. So a new upgrade for the internal computer will be out as well. People like me who do not need another loop creating device will have stuck through the early days of stand alone when it wasn't that great and "helped" Ableton to make it a mature device, and the reward will be years of loops created on an immature device OS to watch new buyers get much much faster computers. Oh and the option to upgrade for $1000.

So my advice is to wait a couple years. Ableton will probably eventually make stand alone capable of writing whole songs on, and you will get a much better CPU by the time they do.