L11.3.4 update!

[[jur]]

If you experienced issues with Live’s new Auto-Warp, you can now update to 11.3.4 for faster, smoother warping performance as well as Push 3 bug fixes.
See what else comes with this free update in the Release Notes.

[Angstrom]

Can we just hear once again the reason for the new auto warp? Because I'm not sure I understand it . So far my impression is that it's a new analysis method for auto warping some long audio which was not previously warped or analysed.

DJ tracks. Other peoples songs. That sort of thing.

So for example: my recording of me playing modular synth into my set should not need to be autowarped EVER ...because obviously I am recording it at the native BPM and it should not need anything other than the BPM of the clip to match that of the project.

And further to that, if I had recorded that synth in the year 2018 at a BPM of 120 and that recording stayed in the set where it was recorded and played back at 120 alongside some drums that I recorded and some bass that I recorded at 120, all in the year 2018. Safe and secure. Unchanged.

There should be absolutely no reason that my audio should be reanalysed, rewarped or otherwise fucked with by some automatic process with no controls.

I'm obviously confused so can someone please restate the benefits of the new warp system. It must be an amazing reason because it's harming my trust if Ableton Live , I now 100% believe Live 11.3,X will corrupt my existing material. And I don't know why anyone thought this was a good idea.

[[erm]]

The reason for the new warping algorithm is because it's MUCH more accurate at analyzing longer files than the previous method.

[Angstrom]

The reason for the new warping algorithm is because it's MUCH more accurate at analyzing longer files than the previous method.

And so why does it RE analyse existing material. My recordings. Why does it affect existing materials?

If it produces the same analysis result then it's not necessary to rewarp my recordings

If it produces different analysis results then it should not be allowed to alter my materials

If it only acts on new " DJ songs" dragged in that would make sense. But why is it going anywhere near my old recordings?

I don't need "analyzing longer files ". I record my own long files. I hoped they were safe.

I will stay on 11.2 until this madness is resolved

[weston underwood]

Bit of anger in here!

Doesn't this say though that nothing is going to happen unless you tell it to re-warp?

To run the new Auto-Warp algorithm on clips within an existing Live Set, use any of the Warp From Here commands (found in the Sample Editor's context menu) from any location in a clip.

[Angstrom]

Bit of anger in here!

Doesn't this say though that nothing is going to happen unless you tell it to re-warp?

To run the new Auto-Warp algorithm on clips within an existing Live Set, use any of the Warp From Here commands (found in the Sample Editor's context menu) from any location in a clip.

Yes it does say that but in our experience that's not correct. What happens is the asd files are needed to display the waveforms in Live so in 11.3.2 it would autorun the autowarp on every existing audio file within a live-set when loading the set.

In 11.3.3 there was added a "do/don't save ASD" but all that accomplished was that the ASD & autowarp process runs on every project load.

https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... ion-11-3-2

But the issue of our existing recordings being rewarped is the same in all versions of 11.3. Live needs asd files for the gui and timings.
[quote ="AbletonSupport"]
The latest Live 11.3.2 uses an updated warp mode that requires the re-drawing of waveforms for any existing audio Clip previously analyzed in a set.
[/quote]


Nowhere in the bugfixes for 11.3.4 does it say anything about this changing. But we do know that Asd files for existing material will still need creating and when they are created they will be different from before. And when they are different than before the timing will be different.

So, the 11.3.x published information has not so far been correct, accurate, or reliable. The 11.3.4 release information does not mention fixing this core issue.

If the new autowarp is predicated upon a new asd format, and all our existing recordings have asd files then all our existing recordings need new asd files generated.

And it's acknowledged that the new asd format will change the timing of previously recorded materials.


True information trickles out through support interactions but the release notes are neither accurate nor reliable. A lot us happening to our existing recorded materials.

[Neuro... No Neuro]

Nevermind - my fault.

[[jur]]

And it's acknowledged that the new asd format will change the timing of previously recorded materials.

Where did read this Angstrom?
AFAIK, the .ads will be recalculated, but previously warped files won't get re-warped with the new algo; only new files.
Also, the new asd rescan only needs to be done once, so it takes longer to open an old set but only the 1s time... providing you're saving it afterward (I reckon that could sound counter-intuitive in some ways now that i'm writing it).

[Angstrom]

And it's acknowledged that the new asd format will change the timing of previously recorded materials.

Where did read this Angstrom?
AFAIK, the .ads will be recalculated, but previously warped files won't get re-warped with the new algo; only new files.
Also, the new asd rescan only needs to be done once, so it takes longer to open an old set but only the 1s time... providing you're saving it afterward (I reckon that could sound counter-intuitive in some ways now that i'm writing it).

With Live 11.3.2 an improvement to the current warping implementation was introduced. This change causes already loaded files in any set to be reanalyzed again.

https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... ion-11-3-2

And from support

The latest Live 11.3.2 uses an updated warp mode that requires the re-drawing of waveforms for any existing audio Clip previously analyzed in a set.

Now.

What do asd files do? They don't just control the display of a wave they also control the timing, the warping, the warp position.

If all existing wave files are reanalysed then either

Option A : the warp timing outcome is ALWAYS the same, in which case why is it reanalysing all waves. If it's the same?

Or

Option B: the warp timing outcome is SOMETIMES different and "better". All existing audio files get new asd files. And all of them get reanalysed.

If I open an 85 minutes set with 16 recorded tracks. Will live reanalysing my waves and generating new warp asds alter the timing ofvanybwarp marker anywhere. Or will it be exactly the same as in live 11.2.

Can you link me to am article which guarantees all recorded reanalysed waves will be exactly the same as before?

[[jur]]

It says that the files will be reanalyzed, not that their timing will be changed/that they're going to be re-warped!
From my understanding, old files need to be reanalyzed because you might still warp them in the future, in which case the new algo will be used. If you don't tweak them, they won't be changed, just reanalyzed.

[Angstrom]

It says that the files will be reanalyzed, not that their timing will be changed/that they're going to be re-warped!
From my understanding, old files need to be reanalyzed because you might still warp them in the future, in which case the new algo will be used. If you don't tweak them, they won't be changed, just reanalyzed.

That's right, the analysis has changed, it's now "more accurate".

So lets say we have a use case where a user has recorded 60 minutes of their performance, and at the time of recording Live 11.2 created ASD files. Later that week the user decides to edited some warp markers to tighten the timings of the recording. The user moves many warp markers (which are based on the ASD analysis) in all their multitrack wave files.

Some time later the user updates to Live 11.3 and their recorded material, which has warp edits based on the earlier ASD files now has all the waves reanalysed automatically with the new and different method of analysis, which produces different results for transient positions, etc.

Now, we have an old song with existing warp edits which were based on an old analysis method. Live 11.3 discard the old analysis and creates a new analysis file (asd) which is different. Lets say the transients are now "more accurately" detected in different places that they were previously.

are the old warps based on the old ASD exactly as the user heard them when they made the timing edits, or is the warping editing they performed back then now based upon the new ASDs as references for edits which were made months earlier?

Because as we know (and all we know) is that Ableton Live 11.3 is automatically removing old ASD analysis files and replacing those analysis files with new "more accurate" analyses.

Do you see the problem?
The existing warpings on existing files are now going to be based off entirely different analyses. And we have been told that these analyses produce different / "better" results. So how can our old warp edits bee the same?

Furthermore there has been very little communication or explanation, and what little there has been turned out to be wrong!
(EG: new style asd files wont be auto-created on old material ... narrators voice "they were"

[chris harbin]

Not much goin' on for us "non Push 3" peeps, but updates are always appreciated.

[[jur]]

Now, we have an old song with existing warp edits which were based on an old analysis method. Live 11.3 discard the old analysis and creates a new analysis file (asd) which is different. Lets say the transients are now "more accurately" detected in different places that they were previously.

As I said, Live will not create new warp markers nor change the already existing ones for already warped files. These won't change at all, they're just being reanalyzed, so it doesn't matter that the new algo finds different transients. If you then unwarp them and asks L11.3.3 to rewarp them, in this case it will use the new algo.

[Clips]

I'm still experiencing the same long delay after opening sets in Windows 11.

My sets always involve self-recorded audio. Usually the recorded wavs are 20 minutes long or more with sometimes 100+ recordings in a set.

I absolutely would have appreciated in-program notice from Ableton that I'd need to wait 10 or more minutes to open each of my sets while Windows says "Ableton live 11 is not responding" as it creates the new asd files.

I have a fast up-to-date system.

The problem I have is that when it's finally done creating the files and I resave the set, even under a new name, the next time I open it, Live recalculates all of them again for 10+ minutes.

It's unusable to me at this point from any productive standpoint.

As far as I can tell my folder structure is normal, -- I don't even see updated dates, ect. in the "Recorded" directory using Explorer. But it did add 2 zero bytes wave files that I haven't looked in to yet.

Since no one else has complained about the updated asd's not taking, it's probably something dumb on my end.
If anyone could give me a suggestion or two on this I'd really appreciate it.

Also, I'm with Angstrom on this. It's nightmare material watching the files representing a lot of hard work get churned through with Windows suggesting that Live has locked up - in my case every time I reopen sets.

Edit: None of my audio files have ever been warped (by me)
Edit #2: The new asd's are now saving. My fault. See below.

[[jur]]

The problem I have is that when it's finally done creating the files and I resave the set, even under a new name, the next time I open it, Live recalculates all of them again for 10+ minutes.

That's not normal then! Report to Support