Clicking problem with tempo automation
-
FurkanTopal
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2023 3:11 pm
- Contact:
Clicking problem with tempo automation
I'm producing a track right now and in one scene the tempo needs to be changed from 120 bpm to 142 bpm but it causes clicking while tempo change happens. I tried with resampling whole track channels into one audio file and then automating the bpm, but that didn't help as well. I tried to stop that clickings with limiter, clipper but nothing helps. It feels like the sound is coming externally. It doesn't exist in the frequency range. Any ideas to solve this issue?
-
FurkanTopal
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2023 3:11 pm
- Contact:
Re: Clicking problem with tempo automation
Update: Now I tried to render and see if it's clicking. And the answer is no. That clicking is only happening inside Ableton, although CPU usage is at only 21%. So technically, as long as it renders without clicking there's no problem but for some reason it is clicking inside Ableton.
-
FurkanTopal
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2023 3:11 pm
- Contact:
Re: Clicking problem with tempo automation
Update 2: Interestingly, only the resampling's export is not clicking. When I removed the resampling in Ableton and reactivate all the midi clips and when I do the tempo automation like that, and export afterwards, then it is clicking again even in the render. Interesting.
The more interesting thing is, same kinda topic was opened in 2005 and ppl from 2009 were still trying to find the answer and they were without answer. It's 2023 and looks like it's not solved yet.
The more interesting thing is, same kinda topic was opened in 2005 and ppl from 2009 were still trying to find the answer and they were without answer. It's 2023 and looks like it's not solved yet.
Re: Clicking problem with tempo automation
I’m not sure if it’s any help but, it’s probably either a resource problem, a bug, or a problem with elements and behavior of your tool set.
If it’s a resource thing, you can only do so much. And there are things to consider that are pretty common to think about, removing plugins etc.
If it’s a bug, then it might be worth reporting. But it’s hard to verify it is a bug unless you can narrow it down. For instance, would this happen in a set with only a single audio channel, audio clip, and no fx anywhere, with the automation for tempo change occurring? And under which conditions does it happen or not happen?
If it’s a tool set issue, that’s where it is fun to consider the behavior of different items in your set.
On the fx item, some Delays might respond differently to tempo depending on their settings and if they are locked to delaying increments relating to tempo. Some other buffer tools might be something to consider also, but usually delays are the big ones that can behave unpredictably. (Also, fx might not be on standard mixing channels but also Return and Master channels)
On instruments, there might also be delay fx in the instrument. I guess you could solo channels and see if any particular channel causes the clicks?? On instruments there could be tempo based sequencers and modulation, but I really doubt those would have much issue with tempo changes (though you never know).
Last is audio clips. Audio clips next to each other in an arrangement can collide or separate if they are Not warped and the tempo is changing. If they Are warped, then the clips themselves will have processing that causes them to change their duration in order to meet the tempo changes. If they are warped in any ‘surprising’ ways, this could possibly also cause some unexpected pops to occur. If they are Repitch, and there are different tempo markers for warping, they can abruptly change. If they are set to Beats and the quantized slices aren’t set to smoothly transition, they can have abrupt changes in amplitude. If there are a Lot of clips using Complex Pro, I wouldn’t imagine you’d have problems with it changing tempo of you didn’t already have problems in playback in steady tempo.
Just some food for thought in trying to single out the cause of this.
If it’s a resource thing, you can only do so much. And there are things to consider that are pretty common to think about, removing plugins etc.
If it’s a bug, then it might be worth reporting. But it’s hard to verify it is a bug unless you can narrow it down. For instance, would this happen in a set with only a single audio channel, audio clip, and no fx anywhere, with the automation for tempo change occurring? And under which conditions does it happen or not happen?
If it’s a tool set issue, that’s where it is fun to consider the behavior of different items in your set.
On the fx item, some Delays might respond differently to tempo depending on their settings and if they are locked to delaying increments relating to tempo. Some other buffer tools might be something to consider also, but usually delays are the big ones that can behave unpredictably. (Also, fx might not be on standard mixing channels but also Return and Master channels)
On instruments, there might also be delay fx in the instrument. I guess you could solo channels and see if any particular channel causes the clicks?? On instruments there could be tempo based sequencers and modulation, but I really doubt those would have much issue with tempo changes (though you never know).
Last is audio clips. Audio clips next to each other in an arrangement can collide or separate if they are Not warped and the tempo is changing. If they Are warped, then the clips themselves will have processing that causes them to change their duration in order to meet the tempo changes. If they are warped in any ‘surprising’ ways, this could possibly also cause some unexpected pops to occur. If they are Repitch, and there are different tempo markers for warping, they can abruptly change. If they are set to Beats and the quantized slices aren’t set to smoothly transition, they can have abrupt changes in amplitude. If there are a Lot of clips using Complex Pro, I wouldn’t imagine you’d have problems with it changing tempo of you didn’t already have problems in playback in steady tempo.
Just some food for thought in trying to single out the cause of this.
-
SilenceMayhem
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:54 pm
Re: Clicking problem with tempo automation
I've also been experiencing the same issue and I think the previous comment from yur2die4 has some valuable insights. What I've noticed is that it mainly happens for audio clips. If you only have MIDI you are good as in all the online examples (Youtube) of automating the tempo in Ableton. It is kinda stupid because very rarely will a track have only MIDI tracks given the prevalent nature of loops and sampling. I did find that a hard cutoff fixes the problem, so if you want to go from 140 => 120; you can just do a hard cutoff and there won't be any clicks. Clicks appear with a linear, exponential or something in between, so then the tempo is slowly/rapidly changing. The reason for it, I have no clue. Definitely, warping can be a factor but in my scenario I checked warping and it wasn't the issue as everything was warped. Effects such as delays on sends could be the case but I'm unsure if they would cause problems for midi instruments as well, so I'm unsure. I also tried exporting the track that had clicks in the project and it also maintained the clicks in the audio file.
For now, I hypothesise that Live can't automate the Tempo on audio tracks without introducing some kind of artefacts/glitches in the process for whatever reason.
For now, I hypothesise that Live can't automate the Tempo on audio tracks without introducing some kind of artefacts/glitches in the process for whatever reason.