Waves Plugins freeze Ableton Live when launched on secondary display

[rdan76]

(EDIT on 11/21/23: I just wanted to clarify here, at the top of the thread, that my issue ended up being this: Waves plugins freeze Ableton -- or any DAW, as it turns out -- when they are launched on whichever display isn't set as the "Main Display" in Windows Display Settings. Waves plugins work fine as long as they launch on the Main Display. If launched on the secondary display, they show only a white window and they freeze the host application. Despite what I say in this initial post, I later discovered that the problem was happening in any DAW host-application, not just Ableton. As of this writing, I am working with Waves tech-support to resolve the issue. I will post back here if I arrive at a fix. Also, note: I just modified the title of this thread to more accurately describe the issue.)

I'm in the process of migrating from my old DAW (Zaphod) into my new DAW (Kubrick). To gloss over the details a bit here, essentially both DAWs have the same version of Windows 10 (22H2, Pro edition), the same version of Ableton (both 10 and 11), and the same version of the Waves plugins installed (v10). Everything works fine on the old DAW, but on the new one (Kubrick) I experience an issue with my Waves plugs.

This much works: My Waves plugs do show up in the Ableton browser, and I can instantiate them into the chain of an Audio track. I can click on the little arrowhead to unfold Ableton's view of selected settings. And if there are any settings which surface by default in that view, I can control those settings from there. The plugin does seem to pass audio, and the Ableton controls -- while being far from ideal to work with for these plugins, and also being an incomplete set of controls -- do seem to work.

Here's where the problem lies: When I click the Wrench or Configure button, to view the actual plugin with its native skin, to see the complete set of controls, I only get a blank white window, of the appropriate size, with the plugin's name at the top. At that point, the entire Ableton Live program freezes. I get the windows "thinking" ouroboros, then the window says "not responding." At that point, if I try to close the window, I get the choice to either "close the program" or "wait for it to respond." If I choose to close the program, Ableton closes entirely (crashes). If I wait for the program to respond, nothing else ever happens. I mean, I've waited three hours at one point; waiting does not resolve the issue.

Originally, because this is a new PC, I wanted to install the newest version of Live for which I am licensed, as well as the newest version of the Waves plugs I'm licensed for. That would be Live 11.3.13 and Waves v12. That combination gave me the issue described above. So I tried uninstalling my Waves plugs and reinstalling them. Same issue. So I tried Waves v10, which is what I'm using on my older DAW. Same issue persisted.

So I tried installing Ableton 10.1.43, which is the same version of Ableton I'm using on my older DAW. Same issue persisted.

So then I checked these plugs in both Reaper (which I downloaded and installed just to troubleshoot this issue), and Premiere Pro. They work fine in either of these two programs. The issue only exists in Ableton Live, and it only exists on my new PC.

The funny thing is, the new PC has MUCH better specs than the old one. Old one is using a cheap Gigabyte motherboard with built-in video and an older Intel i3 550 processor, and only 16GB ram. Newer one kicks a Core i9 12900K, ASUS ROG Maximus z690 motherboard, NVIDIA RTX 3070ti GPU, 32gb DDR5-6000 RAM, 1000w PSU, and 3 Samsung 980 M.2 drives with a total of 5TB storage. I mean, the new DAW is a pretty robust build, which was targeted for video-production as well as DAW activities.

So what could be the issue? My video-card, perhaps? Should I look at different drivers? Has anyone else with an NVIDIA 3070ti had these issues? I'm truly stumped by this one.

[rdan76]

More details about the new PC, where the problem is occurring:

I don't have a crazy visual setup. I have 2 monitors, both connected with short DP cables to my NVIDIA RTX 3070ti. Both are the same exact Dell monitor, both running at 1920x1080 resolution, 60hz refresh rate.

I don't have any Zoom turned on, either in Windows Display Settings or within Ableton. I'm using the default Ableton skin. (I was using the darker skin, but I changed it back to default for troubleshooting purposes.) I normally have HiDPI mode turned-off within Ableton (I've no need for it), but I did try turning it on to see if it would make a difference; it didn't.

[H20nly]

I’ve seen a problem lonnng ago in Windows XP where the video card was an issue. Easiest way to find out would be to temporarily disable the Nvidia in the BIOS or just remove it physically.

I switched to Mac a few years later, but what made me quit using Waves was an issue with graphics more recently. Not a good comparison, but they definitely made GUI changes in the last few years. I had a Waves vs iMac video issue around late 2021 or 2022 before I upgraded to a Mac Studio. Ditched Waves then, so not sure if mentioning it helps.

Hope you get it sorted

[rdan76]

As it turns out, it seems that the problem only happens when Ableton launches my Waves plugins onto whichever monitor is not marked as my "Main Display" in Windows Display Settings. Weird, huh?

What I mean is, when I click the wrench to open a plugin's window, that plugin will open either on my "Main Display" or my secondary monitor. Which monitor the plugin launches on is determined by whichever monitor a plugin window last closed from. If it happens to launch on my "Main Display," then it's fine. If it launches instead on my secondary display, then it's just a white window and it freezes Ableton.

And it really only matters which monitor the plugin LAUNCHES on. Once a plugin is launched, I can move it back and forth between both monitors without problems. It works fine, once it has launched. Of course, if I close a working instance of a plugin on whichever monitor is currently considered my non-main display and then re-launch it, it will try to launch on the non-main display and freeze.

The really weird thing is, I can arbitrarily change which monitor is considered my "Main Display" in Windows Display Settings. If I change my Main Display to my other monitor, then Plugins work fine on THAT monitor but not the other one. It really just depends on which monitor has "Main Display" status. Very very odd.

But at this point, it's looking less like an Ableton issue and more of a Video Drivers issue. I did try reproducing this issue in other programs, now that I know how to reproduce the issue -- and I discovered that, in fact, I "do" have the same problem in Reaper (for example), if I open my plugins on my non-primary display.

All very strange, because both monitors are exactly the same make/model, both are set-up with the same resolution and settings, both are configured the same way in my video-driver settings. This certainly isn't a fix, but it at least sheds some light on the subject, finally. Guess I'll see where I can get to with Waves tech support, since it's only their plugins which are affected by this strange problem. I'm sure they'll refer me to NVIDIA. Ugh.

[H20nly]

That is weird.

But… I’ve seen something that before, with other programs. Try setting Scaling to 100% on both monitors from Display settings. I’m guessing it’s set to something higher than 100

[rdan76]

That's a perfectly good catch, but unfortunately it's not the fix. Both displays are set to scaling of 100% within Windows Display Settings, and zoom is also set to 100% in Ableton. The notion of the scaling had already occurred to me, and so I had already checked it. But I didn't have to correct it, because I just don't ever set my scaling higher than 100% anyway -- I work in IT and I've seen Scaling and Zoom features cause too many problems in too many applications over the years. Also, I have no high-contrast mode or accessibility features active. Everything is very standard default settings, both in Windows and in whatever host DAW I care to try.

I'm fairly convinced at this point that it's a general setting on the NVIDIA card which is enabled by default but needs to be disabled, or vice-versa. But I've no idea what. Alternatively, next chance I get, I'll try connecting to the HDMI ports on my card, rather than the DP ports. I mean, that "shouldn't" make a difference, but then, this problem "shouldn't" happen to begin with. It's all very strange.

I've opened up a support-ticket with Waves at this point. I'll see where that goes.

[H20nly]

Ha! Yeah, I work in I.T. too… so we, clearly, have the same scars from scaling

Bummer that wasn’t it though. Simple fix, if it was.

I doubt HDMI would be better than DP these days, but you never know.

I’d still give bypassing the NVidia a go and seeing if using onboard graphics helps - unless Waves have something meaningful to try

[rdan76]

Hey! My issue is resolved! Thanks to Waves Tech Support for pointing me in the right direction. Here's the most relevant bit of the email they sent me:

This issue may occur due to an application/service named Nahimic that might be running in the background.
It’s an audio enhancement application that sometimes comes pre-installed with a Realtek audio driver.
Disabling the application may resolve the issue.

To disable Nahimic completely:

Windows 10: Go to Device Manager > Software components and disable A-Volute Nh3 Audio Effects Component.

Windows 11:
Open ‘Windows Tools’. Go to ‘Services’.
Right click on ‘Nahimic Service’ and click ‘Stop’.
To prevent it from running on startup again, right click on it > Properties, and change the startup type to disabled.

Furthermore, if Sonic Suite (by Republic of Gamers) is by chance running in the background (common on ASUS gaming computers) - close the app and see if the issue persists.

I had never heard of Nahimic or A-Volute, but I knew I had SonicSuite installed, and I do have an ASUS RoG motherboard.

But as it turns out, A-Volute is the company which publishes SonicSuite. So in the Device Manager, under Software Components, I did find "A-Volute Nh3 Audio Effects Component" listed. It was a hidden device, however; I had to select "View> Show Hidden Devices" to reveal it. And it was probably hidden because it was already disabled; it was already disabled probably because I'd already disabled my onboard audio-output elsewhere in Device Manager.

Well, so here's what I did:

I uninstalled the following programs from Add/Remove Programs:
- Realtek Audio
- Realtek USB Audio
- Sonic Radar 3 (publisher: A-Volute)
- Sonic Studio 3 (publisher: A-Volute)

Then I rebooted my PC, logged back into Windows, let the PC finish loading the desktop, just to ensure complete removal of the above programs.
Then I rebooted again, but this time I went into the BIOS. In the BIOS, I found under "Onboard Device Configuration" the location where I can disable the onboard audio entirely, at the Motherboard level. So I did that.

Now when I boot into Windows, the only audio device it sees is my Saffire Pro40 audio interface. And my Waves plugins launch perfectly on whichever screen I launch them from, in Ableton and in other DAWs as well. Issue resolved.

Hopefully, maybe, this information might help somebody else on down the line.

[rdan76]

Please ignore this particular post. I made a mistake, posted again accidentally, and now I can't delete it. Whatever.

[Tarekith]

Thanks for reporting back and letting us know how you fixed it!

[H20nly]

Glad it’s working. Enjoy your new rig!